Oncos in Flower...

[Oron Peri]

and I. atropurpurea

[Paul T]

Oron,

Wow!!  Glorious pics.

[Hans A.]

Miriam and Oron,
fantastic to see this glorious plants in their natural enviroment! It is always very interesting to learn how to distinguish the species - I think this is not always easy as for example in I. haynei and I. atrofusca in the different populations between Mount Gilboa and Goral Hills.
Thanks

[Miriam]

Hi Oron,

Glad to see another member from Israel here.
Iris haynei has yellow beard in some forms but I agree with you that it is hard to determine if Pat' Iris is a hybrid or not.

[arillady]

My original seeds of most of my arils came from David Shahak in Tirat Tsvi Israel. He used Iris atropurpurea over his other species and thus creating pseudo species - but some seeds came as eg: Iris haynei or Iris haynei hybrid so I am not surprised that the Iris haynei might show atropurpurea or atrofusca in them.
What I would love is drawings with an arrow pointing to the distinquishing feature/s between each species.
I certainly appreciate the suggestions from Mirian and Oron in Israel about my irises that I grow.
I have a son hovering wanting to use the laptop so I will reply with photos of the other aril in profile in the morning when both are at school.

[arillady]

This morning I took some photos to illustrate the difference in growth between very free draining gravel and other beds that are suffering this year

And then showing the depth of the gravel where the plants are doing well

side view of what may be a hermona hybrid (top of bloom yesteray) - I was looking at the wrong planting plan when I wrote maybe be mariae hybrid

[Oron Peri]

Pat,

I'm sending you photos of the true to type I. hermona in its habitat so you can comper with yours.

oron

[Oron Peri]

It is always very interesting to learn how to distinguish the species - I think this is not always easy as for example in I. haynei and I. atrofusca in the different populations between Mount Gilboa and Goral Hills.
Thanks

Hans,

In some cases it is almost impossible to distinguish between two species and even between two flowers of the same species, specially if they grow as cultivated plants.
It seems  there are no two identical flowers in the same species, there is variation in size, form and color scheme .

The status of some species is not very clear to us and there are still discussions if they are subspecies or species.
I think in some cases only a genetic exam will tell us the true...

[Hans A.]

Thanks Oron - you point out the poblem - more I know /and grow Oncos less sure I am about how to separate species or subspecies - often it is only possible to know which plant you are growing if you know exactly where the plants origin is - just have a look at these I. kirkwoodii ssp. calcarea - they does not seem to be to far away from Iris hermona...

[Oron Peri]

Hans,

For me they look the same

I think that in order to really classify the oncos. an enormous research should be done, by saying it i mean that all known species in the east Mediterranean should be mapped genetically and by distribution, but this is a work that we Israelis can't do at the moment since we can cross the border to Syria and Lebanon only once in our life's... well at least for the moment..

[Oron Peri]

you know in some cases there is a good way to distinguish two species as in the case of Cyclamen africanum and C. hederifolium...
If it survived the frost it is C. hederifolium if it didn't... it was C. africanum

[Hans A.]

There is a difference in the base of the midribs, hermona seems to have a yellowish base , kirkwoodii ssp. calcareas midrib is darker without yellow - but if this is enough to separate them...

I have made the mistake to plant one Cyclamen africanum in a part of the garden I grow many C. hederifolium - as always: the label is lost - now i am asking me every autumn which was the C. africanum here in my frosfree garden...

[Oron Peri]

It is frustrating, isn't it,

We humanbeings need to classify every thing and put it in order just  to understand it... so that we can go to sleep with a quite mind but nature is smarter...

I have a few species in my collection which no one can give the answer on what species they are...
so i just call them in the meantime Gagea whoknows, bellevalia maybe...etc....

[Oron Peri]

just have a look at these I. kirkwoodii ssp. calcarea - they does not seem to be to far away from Iris hermona...

Hans,

This is the new species Iris westii discovered only two years ago on Mt. Hermon at 2020m, there is only one colony on the Israeli side, look again how close it is in  appearance to I kirkwoodii

[Maggi Young]

Oron, would you care to post another photo of I. westii,please,  this one is very small... I would suggest a size of around 700 x 600 pixels ??!!