Oncos in Flower...

[ruweiss]

Historical pictures from a trip to Turkey in 1998,these are scans from paper prints,so please excuse
the poor quality.
One of our highlights was the find of Iris paradoxa f.chochab near Hosap (Choschab) in Eastern
Turkey, the other plant was found beside the rubbish dump of Van while waiting for the bus to Trabzon,
wonder if it still exists! I still don't know the name and would be grateful for identification.

[Rafa]

Amazing pics guys Although is not easy to identified some colours the form of last paradoxa remeber me this one
http://www.badbear.com/signa/signa.pl?Display+Iris-paradoxa+9+1 which I think it could be "mirabilis" form.

[ruweiss]

Rafa, thanks for the quick reply,I understand,that an exact identification by such a photo is not
possible. Nowadays these things are quite easier by the blessings of modern technolgy.
Nevertheless the experience of finding these floral gems in such barren places is still unforgetable
for us.

[Hans A.]

  Wow - thanks for the photos - especially the second is really interesting!
There are some histories around about paradoxas with pure white standards and yellow beard in the Van area which should grow together with the more common "f. choschab".  Apart of the unusual colours it is an extremly large paradoxa clump.

Here I. iberica ssp. elegantissima has started - it is one of the easiest and most beautyful Oncos to grow in central europe (bulbframe) - here in southern europe the iberica - group is not easy at all.

[Paul T]

Hans,

My absolute "Holy Grail" Iris.  I had it once and lost it.  I'm sure you could hear me crying from all the way over there on the other side of the world.    Stunning flower.

I think that kirkwoodii ssp kirkwoodii is getting up there with it for desirability though.  Hopefully one day I can manage to grow both of them, but until then I'll just have to enjoy them here.

Thanks for the wonderful pics everyone.

[Boyed]

Gerhard,
your iris iberica ssp. iberica looks very unique by its unusaul colour. Here is a photo of this species, which grows in the north of our country near the border with Georgia.

Hans,
your pictures are just astonishing!!! I get a great pleasure out of watching them. Your ris paradoxa resembles by its colour our Sevan stock. Iris iberica ssp. elegantisima is wonderful! It grows in the surroundings of our capital Yerevan, but I still can't find the exact locality. Nevertheless I hope that this year I will succeed.

By the way, have you tried to grow oncos from seed. I heard and read that it takes very long (several years) for the seeds to germinate. Is it possible to get them germinate the next year after sowing? Maybee there are some special treatments?

[Paul T]

Zhirair,

I'd imagine that repeated stratification in and out of the fridge would help compress years together into a shorter time.  I think that Irises needed about 8 weeks of cold for their stratification (if memory serves me.... I used to dabble very slightly with breeding bearded iris) and then about 6 weeks of warmth before the next cold period.  That means you could get a "year" of normal temperatures into a few months, and if you repeated this until you observed germination you should be able to bring the dormancy period down.  I don't recall whether breaking through the seed coat of iris was particularly helpful or not, as with many other things that take a while to germinate.  I guess it would be worthwhile trying it out on some common iris seeds to see what happens, i.e clipping a piece off the surface of the seed or using some sandpaper to get through the outer coat.  I've not tried this with irises, which is why I'd suggest trying it on something common first!! 

[Hans A.]

Paul,Zhirair, thanks a lot.
Glad you like the pics. Among the plants I grow Oncos are my favorites and I am glad it is possible to grow them here in the garden – the northern species sometimes cause some trouble (and I also lost plants of I. iberica ssp. elegantissima and I. iberica ssp. lycotis )

I think there are  3 different  ways  to  germinate  oncos by seeds:

1.Natural germination
– fresh seed can germinate quickly –I have a few small plants of my last year harvest (I. paradoxa )– older seed need more time but often after two  or three years they also germinate.

2.Forced Germination
 – in opening the seed where the embryo is situated and a fridge treatment germination can be forced – Rafa described this method in this forum perfectly.

3.Embryo Culture
– isolating embryo and grow it under sterile conditions in an Agar based Medium.

I practice first and third method – as embryo culture is some work and the results are not always as expected I am thinking about changing to forced germination and natural germination.
Paul I have never tried stratification of Onco seed – I should give it a try – possibly GA3 also works.

[Paul T]

Hans,

So, the oncos don't need a cold period for germination then?  Interesting.  Never tried them myself as yet, so no idea.

[Hans A.]

Paul,
Isolated Oncocyclus Embryos do not need a cold period (Regelia - embryos need cold!)-  Important for natural germination seems to be -  as you mentioned - a porous seed coat.
Green seed can germinate in autumn without any cold.

[Rafa]

also, Diane Whithead has tried with succes in Iris acutiloba ssp. lineolata just removing the aril and the skin.
Zhirair have a look at this link http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=847.0

[Boyed]

Hans, Rafa,

Thanks a lot for your useful advises. I also read Rafa's explanations about growing oncos from seeds. Anyway, I think that natural germination is the best way for inexperienced growers or the beginners. I was thinking of the other ways in case if I receive seed from abroad and of course, in this case natural germination will not be the best choice as the seeds will not be so fresh as needed. Anyway, last year I sowed some seeds of iris paradoxa right after collecting and so soon  I will see if they germinate this year.
The other case I wonder if seedlings will survive in pots. As I noticed all oncos need super drainage, which is not always possible to provide for the potted plants.

Some comments from my experience.
Last year I collected some iris paradoxa during flowering and replanted them in my garden. Around 7 samples I planted in a big pot and very soon the all potted plants died because the excessive moisture. But the plants in the garden, in spite of periodical rains, continued growing happily. So I made a conclusion that Iris parodoxa is not difficult even in moister conditions is the case if extra drainage is provided . It is not afraid of extreme colds as well. For example, last year all the summer was very rainy, but oncos continued grow normally and no plant died. I also think that planting oncos in sloppy places also a good thing to avoid water flooding.

[Rafa]

Zhirair, I am agree with you, natural germination is better,  but I think you have a great opportunity (that we obviously haven't) to practice growing from seeds the Onco Iris from your country, with any method, and you could see which is the better.

Most of us can get some seeds and they are very few so we have to decide what it's the best: to wait several years, without guarantees of success or to find methods that not take so many time to see the results.

In my little experience, Iris paradoxa is the most easy grow oncocyclus it is very tolerant with moisture and cold as you noticed, but if you grow it in a pot water+hard frost = rotten. If it has moisture during summer it won't be in dormancy.  In culture, the rhizoma has to be between gravel layers maybe 2 cm up and 1cm down the rhizome and then a good drained soil.

Note: You know better than us how they grow in the nature, so yo just can imitate their natural conditions (type of soil etc.. )

[Hans A.]

The only Oncos I grow in (clay) pots are new ones or when I have some doubts if they could virused - certainly with best drainage.
All the other are growing in my elevated rockery - beds.  Sometimes I think the drainage is to good for some plants because they react positive on watering (annual rainfall about 800mm in my area) - but even in the open ground with best water- and air circulation rot can occure and kill a large plant with many fans in a very short period of time.
Certainly it is right, natural germination can last much time (some of my pots about 5 years without any germination) - but normally you get some seedlings in less time.

[Gerhard Raschun]

now in flower (all my oncos are in pot culture)