Fritillaria-2008

[art600]

Would appreciate your thoughts on the pot of Fritillaria michailovskyi

Overall view
Close-up of aberrant plant
Close-uo of normal flower

Fritillaria montana

[Michael]

Hi Arthur!
The dark one is amazing! Why that tall shoot pale and not as green as the surrounding ones? Was it buried?

[Maggi Young]

An aberrant flower, Arthur, but not a diseased one, I'm pretty sure.

[art600]

Hi Arthur!
The dark one is amazing! Why that tall shoot pale and not as green as the surrounding ones? Was it buried?

Exactly the same conditions  When it first emerged, it looked as if it had come through snow - I thought it would green up, but it just got taller.

[Lvandelft]

Would appreciate your thoughts on the pot of Fritillaria michailovskyi

You will be aware of the fact that most Frit. michailovsky come from Microprop.
So you never know what happens.

[Gerdk]

You will be aware of the fact that most Frit. michailovsky come from Microprop.
So you never know what happens.

Luit,
For me - being completely new to the problems of this theme - micropropagation seems to be a wonderful tool for multiplication of plants which were difficult to increase otherwise.

I am very much interested in failures and problems which may appear and the limits of micropropagation.
 
So please, Luit (and others) don't let me be in the dark any longer 

Gerd

[Lvandelft]

Gerd, I have seen this mostly happening with Hosta, which are grown here by the 100.000nds.
I would never (if) buy micropropagated Hosta.
It is right that it is a very quick method and for some plants the only way, but I believe that after years it is possible that some hidden gens suddenly start to come out.
But of course I admit not knowing much about these matter and might be totally wrong.
I just tell my meaning and what I've seen with my own eyes.

And I am sure being an 'old'fashioned gardener. 

[Gerry Webster]

Gerd & Luit, when micropropagated frits (mainly F. michailovskyi) first appeared in the UK some years ago I remember many growers claiming that they were difficult or impossible to establish & grow on. Today it is possible  to buy many frit species quite cheaply. Are all these microprops?

[Paul T]

I "think" the problem wih micropropagation occurs when you use an original plant ('a') for microprop (which makes 'b'), then use some of the results ('b') to microprop (to get 'c'), then use some of them ('c') to microprop (and get 'd') etc.... getting further and further away from the original plant.  I think of it like you're stretching something.... the further down the ladder you are from the original the more stretched and likely to break it is.  I think I recall that by the 4th microprop (which I think using my example above would be level 'e') there can often be gross abnormalities etc. It doesn't matter if you make millions from the original plant, I'm just meaning once you start using the results for the next microprop instead of fresh "original" material.  Does that make sense?

[Gerry Webster]

  Does that make sense?

Yes Paul, it makes sense. However, I'm not sure it explains the problems with microprops - if there are any - since  surely the same description applies to natural, vegetative increase? As I understand it, micropropagation is basically a more intensive form of vegetative propagation. In this process the increase in quantity of plant tissue  is much more rapid than in nature thus permitting more somatic mutations to arise in a given time  & subsequently accumulate. It is often claimed that prolonged vegetative increase of the normal/natural kind can result in weak or unhealthy plants. I would really like to know the extent to which this process is used in the commercial production of the less common bulbous plants.

[Gerdk]

Thank you alltogether !
Very interesting discussion - I hope it will be continued!

Gerd

[Armin]

Very interesting article!

Arthur,
please post a picture again when the tall frit has opened its flowers.

[Gerry Webster]

I would really like to know the extent to which this process is used in the commercial production of the less common bulbous plants.

A Google search has given a partial answer to my own question. It would seem that all the major groups of bulbous plants have been micropropagated. Since the process is quite expensive  to set up & run it seems to have been primarily used so far  in the production of commercially important crops such as hyacinths, tulips & especially  lilies; in the Netherlands  more than 12 million annually of the latter. On a smaller scale or on a trial basis narcissus, fritillaries,  bulbous iris &  crocus (especially Crocus sativus) have been micropropagated.  Almost any part of the plant can be used as starting material & very large numbers of flowering size plants which are free of pathogens can be produced  relatively quickly. Thus in a laboratory trial  N. bulbocodium microprops flowered the first season after transplanting into a normal compost, i.e., less than two years from the start. It seems likely that in future more of the plants we are interested in will be produced in this way. 

[Luc Gilgemyn]

I'm astonished by what you guys are telling about microprop.
Very interesting.
Thanks very much everyone !

[Lvandelft]

Would appreciate your thoughts on the pot of Fritillaria michailovskyi

I forgot to ask the first time how many bulbs you planted in the pot.

What Gerry is telling us is very interesting and I think I would find a lot more things in the library of the
Bulb Society, which I will not go after, because the reading is mostly too scientific for an simple gardener like me.

I "think" the problem wih micropropagation occurs when you use an original plant ('a') for microprop (which makes 'b'), then use some of the results ('b') to microprop (to get 'c'), then use some of them ('c') to microprop (and get 'd') etc.... getting further and further away from the original plant.  I think of it like you're stretching something.... the further down the ladder you are from the original the more stretched and likely to break it is.  I think I recall that by the 4th microprop (which I think using my example above would be level 'e') there can often be gross abnormalities etc. It doesn't matter if you make millions from the original plant, I'm just meaning once you start using the results for the next microprop instead of fresh "original" material.  Does that make sense?

I think I can find myself in what Paul is writing. This might have happened with the Frits?