Fritillaria-2008

[biodiversite]

F. meleagroides is a very rare item. I don't have any data about it, but your plant is nevertheless surely very uncommon.

For me I obtain for the first time the flower of seeds received from the Fritillaria group in 2002 under the name F. obliqua. Sure the plant is little, about 15 cm high, but the style is clearly trifid and the folliage is twisted : so, F. tuntasia or F. obliqua ?

[Lesley Cox]

Oleg, I think mine took so long to flower because it was in too small a pot and didn't always get repotted when it should so it just sat there for 2 or 3 years and did nothing much.

We do have quite dry summers most years though there is always SOME rain. The drainage is good enough though, for summer rains not to bother most things. Even the juno irises take their chances. Though I have quite a lot of bulbs in pots, all the pots are outside in whatever weather happens.

[Gerry Webster]

Sure the plant is little, about 15 cm high, but the style is clearly trifid and the folliage is twisted : so, F. tuntasia or F. obliqua ?

Biodiversite, It looks like F.obliqua to me. My experience of F. tuntasia is of quite a tall plant (approx 30cm) with several flowers (up to 6) & a different leaf arrangement. However I've  heard that there are hybrids between the two.

[Gerry Webster]

A friend of mine is growing this as Frit meleagroides Can anyone confirm this ID ?

Luc, I've consulted "Flora of the USSR". On the basis of the entry there your plant could be F. meleagroides though it is difficult to be certain. It is described as 25-60cm tall with glabrous stems, leaves 3-7, alternate. Flowers solitary, smaller than F.meleagris, dark brownish-violet, faintly chequered, style trifid. Capsule oblong-ovoid, obtusely three-angled to 2cm long & 1cm in diameter. Flowers April-May.

"Flora Europaea" (Martyn Rix) gives a broadly similar description but adds that the nectaries are linear, 15 x 2mm & describes the flowers as blackish outside, greenish inside tessellated with purplish-brown - which doesn't correspond to your plant. However, I guess we can expect variation   

I have some seedlings of what is supposed to be F.meleagroides but they have made very little growth so it will be a few years before I get any flowers - if they survive.

[Diane Clement]

A friend of mine is growing this as Frit meleagroides.  Can anyone confirm this ID ?

Here's a picture of mine for comparison (taken last year, not in flower yet, this year.)  It looks pretty similar to your friend's.  Yours seems darker inside, but I can't think what else it could be so it's probably just variation.

Fritillaria meleagroides:

[Gerry Webster]

Here's a picture of mine for comparison (taken last year, not in flower yet, this year.) 

Diane, your plants are obviously thriving with two flowers per stem. The nectaries & style seem to correspond to the description in  "Flora Europaea" even if the colour inside doesn't quite correspond.

[Gerry Webster]

Maggi, my memory is that F. tuntasia is the sweet smelling one. Maybe there is something wrong with my nose (or my memory!)

[Maggi Young]

Luc, the frit in your pic is meleagroides.
Bio, I am pretty sure your frit is obliqua. tuntasia... a good way to tell for sure is to smell it... if it smells very nice then it is obliqua! Not very scientific but effective!

Note: I have edited my post because I am smitten with doubt... yes, obliqua has the good scent.... but is it tuntasia which looks more like Lilium soulei? ?? Sorry, I'll sleep on it!

 Gerry, tuntasia smells quite good but obliqua is better! I think I was getting myself muddled  with a pic of Frit. biflora which I was looking at earlier..... don't even know now if it was in the Forum or not! I need more sleep!
Twisted leaves are good for tuntasia and often a plant needs to be older before the multiple flowers come.
Tuntasia leaves can be longer, though.... oh, I give up....

[Michael]

Uau! Congratulations on the nice frits!

[Gerry Webster]

Maggi, Now I have my doubts. Checking all the literature I have (including Floras & Field Guides)  both F. tuntasia & F. obliqua are described as scented, though each author seems to single out one or the other (not both) for the accolade. Noses obviously differ in their response to scent. There does seem to be agreement that in the wild F. tuntasia is the taller plant & has more flowers (though not invariably) & this is my memory of the plants I used to grow under these names. I also had one whose identity I could never determine - a hybrid? I no longer have any.

Bio, I suspect you will not be able to attempt a positive identification until your plants are a good deal older unless you can find out the wild source of the plant from which the seed came.

[Maggi Young]

Gerry! You're as bad as I am!!
Ian has a couple of pix of F. obliqua in old Bulb Logs.... No 13 /2003 http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/280303/log.html

and No. 15/2004    http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2004/080404/log.html
By those pix... Bio's plant is obliqua!  Her seed came from the Frit. group, so should be correct.

[Gerry Webster]

Her seed came from the Frit. group, so should be correct.

[Maggi Young]

JoF ( John Forrest) has a pic of tuntasia in the old Forum : http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/8/25686.html  it shows the more pronounced shoulders which I associate with tuntasia... so yes, I do think Bio's plant is obliqua!

 Oh, and Gerry, you are a frightful cynic

[Lesley Cox]

This is beginning to sound very much like the discussion about a certain crocus!

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Thanks very much for your help everyone - I was sure I would get some comments for my friend - he will now be able to rest assured that he is growing F. meleagroides !
Thanks again.