Erythronium 2008

[Gerry Webster]

Lesley, I think the selection from E.dens-canis is called 'Rose Queen'. I agree that Michael's plant is best regarded as a strain & therefore not strictly entitled to the clonal name.

[Lesley Cox]

You're right Gerry. Mind continuing to rot!

[Paul T]

Lesley,

I was going to say that the 'Rose Beauty' here seems to do too well and multiply too well for it to be a dens canis.  I would have thought something more along the lines of revolutum, but not really expert enough to know for sure.

[Susan Band]

Gerry, my hybrid came from revolutum as the seed parent and I am pretty sure White Beauty as the other parent. It bulks up like White Beauty, has the ring inside it, is paler than revolutum  and has good leaves. I have named it Kinfaun's Pink although it is technically a strain, as there were 2 or 3 identical plants to start with, now they are divisions. I have also a really good hybrid with dark pink flowers also with the ring, it appeared in a bunch of seedlings of a very dark revolum, I am not sure if it is going to be so good at bulking up. Here is a picture of the darker one. Does anyone else feel that erythronium leaves change depending on the growing conditions (light levels) ?
Revolutum and White Beauty don't always flower at the same time for me so I think that is why some years you can get these hybrids and sometimes you don't.

[Luc Gilgemyn]

That's another stunner Susan ! 
As to your remark on leaves.  Light levels have been exceptionally poor here so far this year and I do have the feeling that the markings on the leaves are better than last year (with an equally exceptional sunny and warm early Spring). 

By the way, what does 'Kinfaun' stand for

[Ian Y]

It is very easy to separate Erythronium dens canis from E. revolutum by the leaves alone.

Dens canis leaves


Dens canis
Erythronium dens canis leaves have a random marking made up of blotches that do not respect the veins in the leaves.


The markings of Erythronium revolutum, and all the Western American species with marked leaves, have a pattern that does not cross over the leaf ribs and veins.


revolutum

revolutum


Erythronium revolutum seedling leaves

 The markings are very variable from plant to plant and the true extent of the pattern does not appear in seedlings under three years old it is often year five before the full pattern is seen.

[Gerry Webster]

Susan, many thanks for your comments on revolutum hybrids. They have confirmed my belief that my own plants are hybrids, probably with 'White Beauty' since they have the throat ring. They were received as E. revolutum & E. revolutum johnsonii. I think misnaming of the N. American erythroniums is quite common. I have plants of the very handsome E.oregonum 'Sulphur Form' which were received as E.citrinum. I believe Ian has mentioned this particular error in the Log.

[Paul T]

Susan,

I love that flower on your hybrid.  Well done!!

Ian,

Stunning leaves.  I just love those dark leaved ones, and the pink flowers and dark leaves in the first pic is a lovely combination.  All very nice!! 

[Gerry Webster]

Maggi, Are all the articles on Erythronium by Ed Alverson still available? I can only find parts 1 & 4.

[Maggi Young]

Yes, Gerry, they are all there!
 This is the index page for the article section;
http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/content.html   
 Ed's five part article are those from April to August 2006 (inclusive)

http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/april2006/content.html  = part1

http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/may2006/content.html   =part 2

http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/june2006/content.html   = part3

http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/july2006/content.html   = part4

http://www.srgc.org.uk/monthfeature/august2006/content.html   = part5

[Gerry Webster]

Many thanks Maggi.

[Gerry Webster]

A question about E. revolutum hybrids. Susan suspects that one of the parents of her hybrid is E. californicum 'White Beauty' & I had the same thought with regard to my (purchased) hybrids. Both our hybrids have the fat filaments characteristic of both E. revolutum & E. oregonum rather than the thin filaments of E. californicum. Looking at the phylogenetic tree in part 3 of  Ed Alverson's article it appears that E. revolutum is  rather distantly related to E. californicum but closely related to E. oregonum. I wonder, therefore,  whether E. oregonum is a more likely parent. Perhaps Ed has some thoughts on this?

[Michael J Campbell]

Here are more details of the plant that I have as Pink beauty

[derekb]

My first this year Erythronium Helenae

[Ed Alverson]

I've been enjoying the chatter on this thread lately, thanks everybody for posting your photos.

I wonder, therefore,  whether E. oregonum is a more likely parent. Perhaps Ed has some thoughts on this?

Gerry has a good point about Susan's darker hybrid.  Erythronium californicum has slender filaments while E. revolutum has flattened (dilated) filaments.  In addition, E. californicum has white anthers and short stigma lobes (<2 mm long).  Susan's plant does look to me like a hybrid with a white flowered species (the pink is somewhat more pale than the pink you would find in straight E. revolutum), but I don't see any influence of E. californicum based on the characters listed above.  However, the appearance of Susan's hybrid is consistent with what one would expect from a hybrid of E. revolutum and E. oregonum (particularly the yellow-anthered form, ssp. oregonum).  This is because of the flattened filaments, yellow anthers, and longer, recurved stigma lobes.  Also, all three species can form the red ring inside the flower, so that characteristic does not help us figure out the parentage. 

While I would be reluctant to say with certainty that "White Beauty" is not a parent of Susan's darker hybrid without DNA or other genetic studies, it does look more like revolutum x oregonum than any other hybrid combination.  Susan, did you also have E. oregonum flowering in your garden at the time this cross was made?  It is certainly a nice hybrid!

By the way, you can find detailed descriptions of all of the North American species of Erythronium on the Flora of North America web site at http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=112169

Ed