Crocus March 2008

[Maggi Young]

I suppose all this is one very compelling argument for all registered names to be complete with an official colour description using the (horribly expensive) RHS colour chart ?

[David Nicholson]

I suppose all this is one very compelling argument for all registered names to be complete with an official colour description using the (horribly expensive) RHS colour chart ?

Saw a 2 volume set (bit tatty on the outside but good inside) in a second hand bookshop I know for £25 if it's still there when next I go would anyone be interested at that price plus my postage costs?

[Maggi Young]

Certainly would be, David. I would gladly take you up on that offer, if they're still there.

[David Nicholson]

Maggi, will PM you.

[Gerry Webster]

Here, if it is of any interest, are the entries for C. tommasinianus from the old Hoogdix web site (RHS colour charts at the ready!):

tommasinianus Herb. * From gardens. Flowers small, inside pale violet. Outside often silvery-grey. Ht. 5-8 cm. II - III.
tommasinianus Herb. 'Albus' * Found at Oxford B.G., Harcourt Arboretum as a lovely seedling. Numerous white flowers, highly recommended for naturalising. Ht. 5-7 cm. II - III.
tommasinianus Herb. 'Barr's Purple' * Introduced by Messrs Barr & Sons of London. Flowers deep amethyst-violet. Exterior of outer segments grey. Ht. 5-8 cm. II - III.
tommasinianus Herb. 'Lilac Beauty' * Introduced by Messrs M. Thoolen. Flowers small and slender. Violet inside, outside light lilac. Ht. 5-8 cm. II - III.
tommasinianus Herb. 'Pictus' * A very fine seedling from Mr Bowles' garden. Large lavender flowers with distinct, large purple tips. Naturalises well, true from seed. Ht. 5-8 cm. II - III.
tommasinianus Herb. 'Roseus' * Selected and raised by E.A. Bowles. This is the 'pinkest' C. tommasinianus seedling currently on offer. It is bright cyclamen-pink. Naturalises well. Ht. 5-8 cm. II - III.
tommasinianus Herb. 'Ruby Giant' * Raised by J. Roozen-Kramer of Bennebroek. Fairly large spectrum-violet flowers, with base and margin paler coloured. Floriferous. Ht. 5-8 cm. II - III.
tommasinianus Herb. 'Whitewell Purple' * Raised by the Rev. Joseph Jacob. Fine reddish-purple flowers in profusion. Ht. 5-8 cm. II - III.

[Lvandelft]

The only thing I can say is that I have seen all three varieties myself and I know that they are all three more than 20 years cultivated by the same ( very secure) person.

Looking at Barr's Purple I can see a little bit of purple, and it's the earliest flowering one.

Whitewell Purple flowers second and has much more purple.

And Ruby Giant is the last and the GIANT of the three, so thinking logically........

To make it easier I put the pics on this page again.

[tonyg]

Here is another form of Crocus tommasinianus for you to identify.  Seen at Kew a couple of weeks ago.  It really was quite a pinky lilac, not purple at all.  It also seemed very uniform, so despite the ?millions in the planting I think they have mass planted a single clone.

[tonyg]

And at Wisley last week (I had not been to either garden more then once in the last 10 years before the last 2 weeks!)
Crocus vernus in the alpine meadow.  Some nice seedlings, some making good clumps.  I think the meadow is my favourite feature at Wisley.  The middle one of the close-ups is possibly a hybrid with C tommasinianus which grows nearby.

[tonyg]

And also at Wisley but not as interesting as the meadow was the trial of small spring flowering crocus.  It was a bit late  in the season but the trial was not by any means a complete cross-section of the available taxa.  Highlight of the event for me was a talk from Janis Rukans about his experience of crocus in the wild.  His adventures are not dissimilar to those of Stellan in Armenia and elsewhere.  He talked of going to bed in under canvas wearing all the clothes he had with him but waking at 3am frozen cold to find a layer of ice on the inside of the tent!  Thats dedication to a cause.

The crocus collection at Wisley is quite extensive but was mostly past flowering.  (At Kew they should probably burn the lot  - made my virus problems look tame )

The one close-up below is of a C vernus x tommasinianus.  Very similar to 'Pictus' but the size of C vernus.  Nice!

[Guff]

TonyG, does the C vernus x tommasinianus , have a name?

Crocus vernus 'Tatra Shades' ~ This gives the impression of a C. vernus doing an impression of C. tommasinianus 'Pictus'. Silvery lavender flowers daubed at their tips with rich violet-purple. We're impressed. Montane; Carpathian Mtns. Zone 5.

I bought 2 corms from Odyssey Bulbs, hopefully they are like the one you have pictured, very nice.

[Thomas Huber]

I suppose all this is one very compelling argument for all registered names to be complete with an official colour description using the (horribly expensive) RHS colour chart ?

Saw a 2 volume set (bit tatty on the outside but good inside) in a second hand bookshop I know for £25 if it's still there when next I go would anyone be interested at that price plus my postage costs?

David - please, please - if you have the RHS  colour chart: Try to bring light in that horrible Ruby Giant/Whitewell Purple confusion!
Ruby Giant has colour 735/2 spectrum violet!

[Thomas Huber]

This thread is moving too fast to keep up.   
Thanks Thomas, it was nice to see your lawn 7 years ago.  We can see that Chris has grown as well as the crocuses!  On the old picture and your recent picture, your grass is a lot shorter than ours.  Do you cut it before the crocuses are showing?  Or is your climate colder than ours so it hasn't started growing round?  I've been warning my husband to cut round the clumps as they were emerging but I think we could have cut it shorter before they emerged.  Still awaiting Negro Boy and Blue Bird although the latter has started coming through this week.  I'm thinking of adding some Iris and snowdrops later this year. 

Diane, I don't cut my lawn in spring, last cutting is in September/October. I'm sure we have colder climate here than you as my grass starts
to grow in April and it's never looking so compact and green like yours. Perhaps a mowing before the Crocus appear would be good for you.

[Thomas Huber]

Thank you for the suggestion on Crocus nudiflorus, Howard and Thomas. Will give it a try in my lawn. The point about autumn crocuses not following the calendar is also a good one. I have observed this on other autumn crocuses here in my rock garden section.
Thanks to everyone for great pictures. Keep them coming to save me from our still snowy surrowndings.

Staale it's not only Crocus nudiflorus - I guess all the crocus flowering without leaves would be OK for you as there are:
speciosus, pulchellus, kotschyanus, banaticus. From Göte in Sweden I know, that he has problems with autumn Crocus that flower
with their leaves (coming from warmer climates), so I would not recommend to use them in Norway, too!

[mark smyth]

I have the chart but I'm unable to reach the Crocus just now. Maybe this weekend

[Thomas Huber]

I have the chart but I'm unable to reach the Crocus just now. Maybe this weekend

OK Mark - so we're impatiently waiting for the Irish results!