Crocus March 2008

[Gerry Webster]

More on ‘Ruby Giant’ & ‘Whitewell Purple’
Hoogdix describes the colour of RG as “spectrum violet” & that of WP as “reddish purple”. These colour-terms mean nothing to me. In the absence of RHS colour charts (& of the plants) I thought it might be fun to put Luit’s photos into an image editing program (‘Color It’) which permits the analysis of colour in terms of hue, saturation & brightness. I made 5 measurements on different parts of  the perianth of each plant (the right-hand WP in the photo) & took the average. In terms of hue the varieties are  indistinguishable (277 vs. 275). The colour of RG is a little more saturated (65 vs. 59)  & somewhat less bright (34 vs 40) than that of WP.
This bit of primitive  science merely confirms objectively what can be determined by eye. Side by side the two plants will be distinguishable in terms of colour but a positive identification will be extremely difficult. I suspect it will be impossible to identify an isolated plant on the basis of perianth colour alone.  Size, of course, is dependent on cultivation conditions. On the basis of Luit’s photos, & if his  plants are true to name, it would seem that the only visible  difference which might permit positive identification is the somewhat darker colour at the top of the tube in RG.  I suspect the confusion will persist.

[David Nicholson]

Gerry, would not the light pertaining at the time Luit took his pictures have a diluting or enhancing effect?

[Gerry Webster]

Gerry, would not the light pertaining at the time Luit took his pictures have a diluting or enhancing effect?

Yes David.   I assumed that the light conditions were comparable. I presume Luit posted his pics so that we could compare RG & WP. My bit of  "primitive science" was an attempt to make the comparison slightly more objective &, as I said, merely confirmed what could be seen.  I think the results are suggestive rather than conclusive. I wonder whether confronting the living plants with an RHS colour chart would be any more conclusive.

[Hans J]

Hi all ,

I had a similar question like Karl before some days -also I discuss with Thomas about this plant - what is this ??
It was found in Montenegro ....is this tommasinianus or vernus ?
Before some days I have shown a pic from a C. vernus from Mt. Orjen ( this is not so far from this location )
The leaves are similar !

Any ideas ?
What you think now Thomas ?

[Thomas Huber]

Looks like pure vernus ssp vernus to me!

[mark smyth]

I thought my Crocus were mainly over but to my surprise one is also up and flowering after me thinking it was dead. A couple of late ones are now flowering and I see others that will come in to flower next week

Carpathian Wonder
heuffelianus
heuffelianus ex Kath Dryden - are those natural stripes or virus?
vernus clone B x2

[Martin Baxendale]

heuffelianus ex Kath Dryden - are those natural stripes or virus?

Looks a bit worrying to me, Mark.

[Maggi Young]

Quote from: mark smyth on Today at 03:25:04 PM
heuffelianus ex Kath Dryden - are those natural stripes or virus?

Looks a bit worrying to me, Mark.

And me.....

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Mark,
your C. heuffelianus made me think of my C. etruscus last year.
Here are two pix of the same little group of C. etruscus

1) 2007 looking a bit "awkward"
2) 2008 looking "normal"


The pictures were taken with different cameras which explains the colour difference.

[Lvandelft]

During the last few days I have studied extensively the three Crocuses, i.e:
Barr’s Purple, Whitewell Purple and Ruby Giant.
I made many pictures of them and studied the colours with a simple Colourchart:
J.H. Wanscher; Farbbestimmung von Blumen leicht gemacht.

This chart uses 21 important colours.
I believe in the first RHS Colour Cart were more than 8000 colours.

When looking at HCC 735/2 (T.H.) of Crocus Whi ……….
I come to the following description: [lebhaft violet] : Vivid violet 

Here starts the big problem: In most descriptions in books or catalogues are all three Crocuses called more or less PURPLE.
Using my chart I always come to violet to bluish-violet.

Barr’s Purple shows HCC 639/1 : radiate clear bluish-violet and the inside shows
A clear bluish violett
Whitewell Purple shows HCC 735/2 : vivid-violet
   The next day I thought it being HCC 738/1 : deep bluish-violet

Ruby Giant shows  from 635 radiate violet to strong vivid-violet, while the inside of the flower shows a more clear bluish-violet (HCC 639/2)
And the next day I thought it was vivid bluish-violet to radiate clear bluish-violet.

I can tell you when looking at the colours with sunshine, clouds or artificial light, you will get different results.
The same counts for making pictures.
I’ll probably never be able to make the same pict. as Thomas of his Crocus Whitewell Purple,(or Ruby Giant) in the grass, because of the radiation is so different from that in my place near the sea.
I put some different pictures hereby (again) and a picture of a part of the Colourchart I used.

My final conclusion is that both, Barr’s Purple and Whitewell Purple are C. tommasinianus  and Ruby Giant is obviously mixed with some C. vernus.

So here are the pictures:
   
Crocus Barr's Purple (2)                   
Crocus Barr's Purple (4)                         
Crocus Barr's Purple 
02 Crocus Whitewell Purple
06 Crocus Whitewell Purple
Cr Whitewell Purple T.H. i.e. Ruby Giant             

001 Crocus Ruby Giant
002 Crocus Ruby Giant               
01 Crocus Ruby Giant
04 Crocus Ruby Giant                 
05 Crocus Ruby Giant
     Colours

[Lvandelft]

last batch:

[Maggi Young]

Thank you for these last postings, Luit.  You have made extensive reseaches in the matter and have had sage advice from your good friend and fellow countryman, a bulb expert whose opinion is greatly valued. I think we can now put to rest our "worryings" over this matter. You have cast as much light as is possible and I, for one, am content that we can go no further with it.
So, we'll call this an end to the matter! 

[johanneshoeller]

The Crocus like the sun!

Crocus neapolitanus (2x), atticus (sieberi ssp.?), Colch hungaricum (different colours), Bulboc. vernum, ?

[johanneshoeller]

And the last 2 Crocus ( ? and tomm. alb.)

[Lesley Cox]

Sorry to cause more problems Hans but do you think your atticus pictures above could be sieberi ssp. sublimis f. tricolor?