Identifying Crocus

[Lesley Cox]

Unless T and T say differently, I'd go with C. serotinus salzmannii, though perhaps you should have a look at the corm tunic when it dies down. The leaves are well developed too, which suggests C. s. salzmannii, or the possibly invalid ssp. name erectophyllus. I'm happy (and waiting) to be shot down though.

[Thomas Huber]

Lesley, I think you're right, Paul's plant could be serotinus ssp salzmanii.
But Erectophyllus isn't a ssp name, it's a cultivar name!

[Paul T]

So just how widely spread are the salzmanii?  This one doesn't even remotely resemble the "normal" one or the white one I have as it has much thinner petals and the outer specklings.  I do have a supposedly "dark form" which hasn't flowered for me as yet, but maybe it is the same as this one.  How much darker do they get, and how much variability is there in petal forms etc?

[Thomas Huber]

Paul, a basic question: What is the "normal" salzmanii? Do you mean the standard trade clone? But what is the standard trade clone? There are sooo many different forms in trade, plus many more from different collections. In the wild ssp salzmanii is widespread from North to South Spain plus Morocco.

If you ever come to observe a wild habitat of Crocus you will find out, that there are different forms even in the same location so you can imagine, that this results in many, many different forms all over it's growing area.

I know about dark and bright blue ones, with stripes and feathering or without, small or big flowers with broad or small petals.
A little idea will the following photos give:

[Paul T]

Thomas,

The photos are great.  There's a few of those I'd love to grow, if they performed as well as our standard salzmanii here in Aus then they'd be absolutely stunning!!

I guess I forget at times how many different things you have available over there that we don't have here in Aus.  So often here in Aus have a single variety of something, as it was brought in years ago and has been passed around since then, so everyone has the same thing.  C. s. salzmanii is a fine example where generally everyone has the same thing as it grows, multiplies and flowers well.  I honestly until now really had no idea that it was so variable (just like I had no idea for the longiflorus.  I knew there were various forms of various species (I recall sieberi ssp sieberi pics last year or the year before which show so much natural variation) but here we don't really see it unless we grow things from seed ourselves.

Also, I must admit I didn't realise that these species were that varied within a given population.  I had thought that most of these variations were from different colonies which gave the difference.  I have never seen a wild crocus colony (nor am I ever likely to unfortunately) but I didn't realise that they varied so much in the one location.  Pretty dumb I guess, as I should have realised it given discussions we've had.  Often not so easy to apply something practically when we haven't observed it ourselves.  Sorry for having been so slow on the uptake.   

Thanks so much again for the pics.  Great to see such wonderfully practical illustrations of what we're talking about.

[Hans J]

  dont worry Paul 

If you are in some days ( or years ) in the age of Thomas so you will also know this all .....

[Paul T]

Thomas is 40 and I'm 39, so if his age is giving him wisdom then there is absolutely no hope for me! 

 

[Hans J]

yes Paul - I know this !!!
but ....before one year ....

You have to come to Europe

[Paul T]

Hans,

Yes, 'twould be nice to come to Europe.  Don't hold your breath just yet, it may take a while. 

[Lesley Cox]

Thanks Thomas (for shooting me down ). I did know Erectophyllus wasn't a subspecies in fact, just getting my lettering wrong. In Mathew (1st Edition 1982) he mentions it in the text with single quotation marks ('Erectophyllus.') as if it were a cultivar name whereas in the index he lists it as var. erectophyllus Bowles. Anyway it seems it's just a very leafy North African form of C. serotinus salzmannii. Your batch of variation pictures is great.

[Lesley Cox]

We also seem to be having a little (silent) argument about the spelling of salzmanii/salzmannii. I'm going with the latter, as per Mathew (1st Edition, 1982) again.

[Thomas Huber]

Thanks for shooting back, Lesley 
Of course you're right, it's salzma"nn"ii!

[David Shaw]

I don't remember getting the bulbs but in early spring we found a clump of large, purple crocus in the garden. My thoughts were that it was a Dutch hybrid. However it has set seed. Do Dutch hybrids set seed or could it be a large form of C. vernus?

[Lesley Cox]

Yes, the large-flowered Dutch hybrids based on C. vernus can/do set seed.

[Giles]

Help with a crocus please.
I went to the Edinburgh SRGC Show 5th April, and saw a rather fine crocus, wrote its name down, and thought I must find out more about it some time.
I had no success at all, looking through all my books at home.
I see that someone took a picture of it and posted it on the SRGC website, under SRGC shows and events, Edinburgh and Lothian Show.
It's labelled Crocus goteborgenis.
Do any of you know anything about it?
Is the reason I can't find anything out about it, that it's mis-spelt, or is it some trendy new species?
I would be grateful for your thoughts,
Giles