Scotland's rare mountain plants disappearing as climate warms - article

[Maggi Young]

An article  about a report that Scotland's rare mountain plants disappearing as climate warms ......
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/17/scotlands-rare-mountain-plants-disappearing-as-climate-warms-botanists-find


 NTS botanist Dan Watson and geologist Ali Austin of the John Muir Trust record a host of rare plant finds on the north face of Ben Nevis. Photograph: Murdo Macleod for the Guardian

[ian mcdonald]

Yes, Maggi. This echos my own findings. As an "Amateur" I don,t expect the academics to take any notice of my observations which go back many years. Some species in one of my favourite locations seem to have disappeared altogether while others have retreated to higher ground.

[Maggi Young]

Often a reluctance to give credence to the reports of "amateurs", as you  say, Ian  - in spite of the fact they may be the people best placed to collate information and interpret it!

[Tristan_He]

Interesting article. I do wish newspapers would provide links to the actual study though, so that we could see the details of the findings for ourselves (and yes, search engines etc...).

With regard to the observations of "amateurs" Ian, so much nature conservation work is dependant upon the records of dedicated and skilled individuals such as yourself who collect records of species and send them to their Local Records Centre, BSBI or similar. These data are a goldmine and can be absolutely critical for estimating short and long-term trends of so many of our species. Interpreting them is another matter (the stats can be quite tricky to rule out bias etc).

Of course scientific programmes such as the Environmental Change Network are also important by bringing together fine scale trends and linking meteorological, air quality and water quality data to the ecology, and can sometimes provide more rigorous tests of concerns people are raising or patterns they think may be occurring. Finally if there are patterns that you have observed over many years but don't think are being investigated, why not write an article for one of the alpine garden societies' journals, BSBI newsletters etc where these questions can be raised and perhaps be looked into in more detail?

[Tristan_He]

I'd also be interested to know whether changes are related to temperature per se, or other climate related factors (e.g. less snow cover, drier / wetter summers / winters). You actually have proper snow cover on some of the Scottish peaks I think?

[ian mcdonald]

Hello Tristan, I think permanent snow cover is becoming a thing of the past on many hills. As you say, there are  probably more effects of climate to be taken into account than just the usual "global warming" scenario stated by the media. In my opinion, for what it,s worth, there are differing cycles of weather patterns. Short, medium and long term. We will never know how long a "long term" cycle lasts except perhaps in ice cores at the poles ( although this may be relatively short in Geological time). This may only indicate the weather at the polar regions and not localised weather patterns in the UK. Medium term weather patterns may last for centuries but in the life of the Earth this is a fairly short time scale. Short term patterns may be measured in decades i.e. within living memory. It may be that plants are responding to a "short term" change in weather. Some of the plants we grow in our gardens start to wilt during hot, dry spells and revive after they have been watered or after rain. I have noticed that plants usually take several days to recover after weather changes, Haberlea and Ramonda are good indicators of a dry spell. Plants also suffer from too wet a climate but this seems less severe than too dry, unless flooding occurs. In the hills the more vegetated areas are usually along flushes and streams where more or less permanently wet but not flooded areas are to be found. I have failed to re-find Saxifraga rivularis in a known site, for several years. The site was a wet scree. It is now quite dry. I think this is due to lack of snow melt. Quite a few plants such as Saussurea alpina, Silene acaulis, Loiseleuria procumbens, are now becoming scarcer at their "usual" altitudes. It should be taken into account that even short term weather changes can have an effect on our alpines. Many Floras give a fairly wide range of flowering times for plants. In The Wild Flowers of Britain and Northern Europe, Fitter, Fitter and Blamey, (1980) for instance, the flowering time for Loiseleuria is given as May to July. This is to take into account the weather pattern in different years. If we were to take our holidays at the same time each year it would be easy to miss the flowering of some plants. The tiny alpines could be overlooked when not in flower and this would give the impression that they had disappeared or were reduced in number.  A study of the changes to our alpine flora would need to be undertaken over a period of say, 10 years and at several times during the summer months, at a given site. From my own observations I would say that our alpine flora is reduced in species and numbers but on the other hand I would not say this is a permanent situation until a longer and more detailed study was carried out. We have had dryer periods and wetter periods before now and still had a varied alpine flora. I think what we are seeing is the effect of a short term warmer period. As more studies are carried out more information will be available. No doubt, if we have 10 years of long cold winters and lots of snow and ice there will be other changes to our flora, time will tell. My prediction for the UK weather when "global warming" was the news was that we would have wetter, milder winters and cooler, wetter summers. We are an Island surrounded by water, most of which is to the West. Clouds are formed over large areas of water and clouds bring rain. The prevailing wind is from the West. I remember the media saying that the south of England would be like the Sahara. Don,t believe everything you read.

[Tim Ingram]

Ian, Tristan, do you have this recent book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mountain-Flowers-Michael-Scott/? It has fine reviews. This is a very interesting discussion and I agree with Tristan about writing articles from the personal experience of plants - I did enjoy your piece in the IRG and learnt a lot from it, as well as your obvious enthusiasm about studying the plants. It would be great to see more ecological/scientific articles in the AGS Journal because this might tap in more to the environmental concerns of a younger generation, and encourage the Society to become invigorated and take something of a new course. I'm certainly thinking along these lines in potential talks we could have for our Group in Kent because there often seems a definite absence of connection between older and younger generations within the gardening world, but this is not true at all in the world of science where exchange of information and new insights are key to progress.

[ian mcdonald]

Hello Tim, thanks for your interest. I may be wrong but it seems to me that some academic students leave the Environmental world behind once they gain their degree. I know from experience that some students fieldwork leaves a lot to be desired. I must say that they are probably in the minority. On the other hand their results are set down as authoritive papers and these are sometimes misleading. Amateurs, who have spent many years studying (observing) wildlife are discounted by the establishment, who say that the amateurs work is "anecdotal." There seems to be two distinct camps regarding Natural History, the "professional" and the "amateur" and neither should mix. This situation has always been in place. Perhaps this is slowly changing with the introduction of the internet and the ease of getting your work in the public domain. I have had a short article in the AGS Journal regarding the use of peat in horticulture and the effect of removal on our rare habitats. I did try to have the AGS and SRGC to amend their constitutions to include more on Environmental Protection but maybe this is too far in the future for the majority of gardeners. As for the gap between the generations, the problem is not enough publicity regarding our environment. Too few TV programmes actually informing the public about the destruction of our country for warehouses that are built to "provide jobs" and then import labour from other countries to fill the jobs. This policy seems to me to be chasing round in circles. Our hedges are being destroyed illegally, at an ever increasing rate and fields which are needed to grow our food are being built on. The result is that rain forests are being destroyed so that palms can be grown for their oil. How many people bother to read the ingredients on a chocolate bar? Do they realize the world scale damage caused by buying these products? Do we care? I think it was Henry Ford who said, no publicity is bad publicity. The quickest way to involve the younger generation in protecting habitats and wildlife is to continually publicize the fact that once they are lost they are lost forever. The main problem seems to be that commerce not people make the decisions. I don,t know if the Forum is the right place for these comments but I,m not in Government so I can,t make them there.

[Tristan_He]

Ian I agree with your observations on climate. I also think that growers of alpine plants are in a good position to ask the right questions about what environmental factors affect alpine plants, especially if they also climb mountains regularly.

There is quite a lot of talk about 'knowledge transfer' in science these days and it's actually part of the grant award process. But for many scientists, this means transferring their knowledge to non-scientists, rather than a genuine dialogue. I do think this situation needs improving, though it is difficult to resolve. Sadly, field ecology is a dwindling subject in UK science these days due to funding priorities. This in turn makes it more difficult for students to learn field skills at university. It's a vicious circle.

Many student projects definitely leave a lot to be desired. When I did my degree (zoology) I got some funding to go to the south of France to study dragonfly mating behaviour for two weeks (tough gig, but somebody had to do it  ). Like most students I went out with some vague ideas which didn't really work in the field, took a bunch of rather aimless observations and ended up scratching my head wondering how to analyse the data. I got really lucky - a German chap published a paper on dragonfly mating systems that month and I was able to match my observations to his scheme.

Fortunately, I don't think the future of our environment has ever resided with the academic sector. Much more important are the various environmental NGOs, who are much better at engaging with the public on the whole. That's why it's really great to see NTS and the John Muir Trust working with SNH on alpine plants. I also think there are many young people who care a lot about the environment and want to work in the sector.

[Dave M]

Hi folks,

I circulated this article on social media and really glad Maggi has posted it here, she has beat me to it! Im really enjoying seeing the comments it has generated as it is a subject close to my heart and interests.

I work as an upland ecologist for a large environmental NGO, it was through a love of natural history in the mountains of the UK throughout my childhood and later on as my career developed as an ecologist in the uplands of the UK that my path crossed over into the world of growing alpines. I guess I see a lot of relevance in the comments in both a professional and amateur capacity. If it wasn't for amateur botanists and naturalists early on in life and throughout my career I wouldn't have the knowledge today, I'm pleased to contribute to conservation work in both an amateur and professional way to this day myself and work with both groups in my day job valuing them equally. Much of the work I'm involved with today is underpinned by work and knowledge by amateur naturalists.

I too aspire to see the AGS and SRGC further blend the interests of its members involving both growing and conserving the plants and habitats we are all passionate about. I'm currently working on building a partnership of NGO's and government agencies to see us take seriously the conservation of our native alpine flora within the Lake District National Park both on land within our control and within the wider grasp of the partnership. Despite millions of pounds of public money pumped into these areas, its failing to deliver the conditions needed to ensure their survival and recovery. Its early days but I see "amateurs" (btw, I hate that term as there is usually not much amateur about the knowledge/skills some folks have!) as an increasingly important part of this work and I would like to extend it into the world of horticulture to make it relevant for members of the groups that we belong to. To this end, Ive recently produced to submit to the relevant groups to gauge their interest in support in developing this type of work that hopefully can involve members in, and communicate via journals and platforms like this excellent forum.

Im optimistic for a future, to conserve our native plants and build support in the next generations and wider public in our interest. As they say, watch this space!

[ian mcdonald]

Hello Dave, I was interested in your comments and pleased that there are some people actively involved in Conservation, (there are many).  I wonder though, why millions of pounds have been spent to ensure the right conditions for the recovery and survival of alpine plants. Perhaps the policy of spending money to reverse conditions needs to be re-assessed? It may be that destruction and recovery are not the way to go. Prevention is better (and cheaper) in the long term. Legislation is all very well if it is enforced but in reality commerce dictates our future. The present policy is don,t let the environment get in the way of profits (quoted as jobs), someone else will clear up the mess later. The problem with that is, it will cost a lot more to clear it up later, rather than just saying NO now to destruction. It is Government that needs to actually govern. I am not interested in politics so I don,t know why the situation is as it is. Apathy?

[Maggi Young]

Interesting article. I do wish newspapers would provide links to the actual study though, so that we could see the details of the findings for ourselves (and yes, search engines etc...).

  A very good point, Tristan - however, since so many papers are only available via restricted access/paid subscription, or in the case of many "reports" mentioned in such articles, seemingly not available anywhere to public access, then the frustration seems likely to continue while it is so hard to find the information.

[Dave M]

Re. millions of pounds - the uplands (especially England) have had millions ploughed into them and still do via environmental payments like environmental stewardship and basic payments but it has spectacularly failed to deliver public goods and meaningful recovery of habitats across much of the uplands. This money (our money from our taxes!) has been poorly used, watered down to maintain a status quo that upland land managers have found acceptable and delivered some minimal benefits for the environment and tax payer.

If you look at where land management has seen true conservation of its habitats as the end goal, the results are clear - places like Cwym Idwal and exclosures within Ben Lawers and other sites give a reminder of what's inside and not outside of these areas! If we want to see our native alpines conserved we do indeed need to take preventative approach and that is where our proposals are heading - just think what you could have done with those millions if you set some real tangible outcomes in return for that public money. The public purse is getting tighter and I for one would like some results for my taxes at a landscape scale in order to save the plants we love.

[Dave M]

  A very good point, Tristan - however, since so many papers are only available via restricted access/paid subscription, or in the case of many "reports" mentioned in such articles, seemingly not available anywhere to public access, then the frustration seems likely to continue while it is so hard to find the information.

If I find the report I will be sure to post it here!

[Tim Ingram]

The 'Carrifran Wildwood Story' is very enlightening on this because at the end of the day the money was raised by private individuals committed to supporting the project, and none came from where you might have thought it would - the Lottery or the Millenium Project - because the land was bought above the market rate (and the market rate is simply using it in just the way that has denuded it of vegetation). In other words, as Dave comments, environmental subsidies seem to have a dubious reasoning behind them, which is much to do with the status quo rather than imaginative and radical changes resulting from public pressure and  a different set of 'values'. I was impressed by the Glencoe project to return a more natural vegetation, but this is a highly visible and dramatic location, and the bodies behind it are very high profile. None-the-less there does look to be a momentum in this direction and that money could be spent to support people involved with projects such as Carrifran equally as it is in other ways, with great benefits and a higher visibility in general that ecological regeneration is viable and effective. It must be as valuable in a fundamental sense as the money that has been ploughed into sport with the results we now see at the Olympics. Both result in a healthy respect for hard work and dedication and aiming high.