Autumn flowering Narcissus (NH)

[Anthony Darby]

Here are some daffodils which are just flowering after first watering at the beginning of September

1. N. elegans (malacitanus) - from the Spanish mainland
2. N. miniatus (obsoletus)
3. + 4. N. miniatus with 7 petals - please note the changing colour of the corona!
5. N. cavanillesii - a free flowering type

Gerd

Rafa now tells me that Narcissus elegans is now properly called N. obsoletus, and what I've been growing as N. obsoletus should be called N. deficiens.

[Gerdk]

Rafa now tells me that Narcissus elegans is now properly called N. obsoletus, and what I've been growing as N. obsoletus should be called N. deficiens.

It is so difficult to follow the shifting of names - especially with the serotinus-miniatus-obsoletus complex.
There is an ongoing discussion among botanists which results in communication problems.
I am unable to state how is right or wrong - still love the plants.

Gerd

[Gerdk]

Some new ones from today


Narcissus broussonetii and N. miniatus (obsoletus) with unusual coloured petals

Gerd

[Yann]

yes what a great color

[Gerdk]

Thank you, Yann!

Gerd

[YT]

The orange petaled miniatus is so attractive, Gerd

[YT]

Narcissus season has started today, here

Narcissus cavanillesii, Morocco, received as N. humilis subsp. mauretanicus. It's my first autumn flowering yellow

[Gerdk]

Tatsuo,
Thanks for compliments too - I like your N. humilis (cavanillesii) ssp. mauretanicus.
Interestingly it flowers when my plants are long over.

Gerd

[Gerdk]

This is Narcissus x perezlarae again -
please note the colour change when flowers are aging!

Gerd

[Tony Willis]

Narcissus x perezlarae a lovely present from Gerd.

Then two I have called N. serotinus the first from Greece and the second from Turkey. I cannot get my mind around the constant changing of names based on minute variations

[Gerdk]

I cannot get my mind around the constant changing of names based on minute variations

Tony, you are not the only one!   

Gerd

[Anthony Darby]

The plant I grow as N. obsoletus is a fertile hybrid (2n = 30) and has a tapering flower tube, narrowest where it joins the ovary. I have yet to flower N. serotinus (2n = 10), which has a sstraight flower tube with a bottle-neck where it suddenly narrows a few mm before meeting the ovary. The plant that I received as N. malacitanus, but since reverted to the name elegans, has 2n = 20. The last two are supposedly the parents of the first, before polyploidy turned the infertile hybrid (2n = 15) into a fertile species (2n = 30). The jiggling of the names is to do with precedence, and seemingly an error as to which plant was actually described as obsoletus. At least I managed to get all these names onto the MPI permitted seeds list!

[Maggi Young]

Mercy!  I love these narcissus and I'm so envious of you folks growing them and having the real thing and not just photos to admire!

[Cfred72]

I have a question for the experts of you on Narcissus serotinus.
I bought a bulb in November last year in a paper bag. I planted in a pot in the greenhouse. he made no leaves and no flower.
I stopped watering in May and allowed to dry all summer (cook behind the windows). This year I changed to earth and he received his first water storm on 15 September. the bulb was still there, with firm roots start growing.
my question is: is it normal that he spent a full year to rest?

[Karaba]

The plant I grow as N. obsoletus is a fertile hybrid (2n = 30) and has a tapering flower tube, narrowest where it joins the ovary. I have yet to flower N. serotinus (2n = 10), which has a sstraight flower tube with a bottle-neck where it suddenly narrows a few mm before meeting the ovary. The plant that I received as N. malacitanus, but since reverted to the name elegans, has 2n = 20. The last two are supposedly the parents of the first, before polyploidy turned the infertile hybrid (2n = 15) into a fertile species (2n = 30). The jiggling of the names is to do with precedence, and seemingly an error as to which plant was actually described as obsoletus. At least I managed to get all these names onto the MPI permitted seeds list!

I also thought that it was like that but Rafa told me (by MP) that it was already obsolete. He told me that
- Narcissus obsoletus should be the correct name for Narcissus elegans (strong species with multiflore stem, southern spain, northern Africa)
- Narcissus serotinus is Narcissus serotinus ss. It is only found in andalousia, all N. serotinus from various place in mediterranean bassin are the last one (N. deficiens) (stem with only 1 flower, no leaves when flowering size)
- Narcissus deficiens should be the right name for N. miniatus, or "N. serotinus" from Tony, or N. obsoletus from Anthony ! (stem with one or few flowers)