Yellow Snowdrops

[Brian Ellis]

I see where I have got in a muddle!  Lady Grey at Howick Hall was the daughter of the 4th earl of Selborne - John Palmer, Lewis Palmer was obviously related to Lady Grey and that is why they have a great many of his agapanthus in the garden.  Sorry to have misled you Rick!  Just found out she was his sister!!

From an obituary:

The Hon. William Jocelyn Lewis Palmer, 3rd son of the 2nd Earl of Selborne, died in 1971.   His work on Agapanthus resulted in the Headbourne hybrids, and Philadelphus 'Beauclerc' was his. He hybridised daffodils, and shortly before he died 'Larkwhistle' received an Award of Merit. His wife, Dorothy (nee Loder), was the daughter of the 1st Baron Wakehurst, the maker of the garden in Sussex now being run by Kew.

Although he was always being asked to identify plants, he had difficulty in remembering the faces of his friends. There are many amusing stories about Luly getting them mixed up, which always distressed him. Once he was heard to murmur : 'If only they were as different as snowdrops, it would be so easy' !

I like the last bit

[Rick Goodenough]

Thank you so much, Brian.

Quite an interesting and prestigious family then. And the comment about our Lewis Palmer is quite a laugh and even more so to know that the context was his obituary. As much as I love drops, I hope that is never said of me, though it is making me reflect. Still smiling with that one!

Rick

[Brian Ellis]

Here, with kind permission of Gert Geenson is a photo of a new snowdrop Galanthus nivalis 'Judith's Yelbino'.

The updated list is here:
http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=15063.msg370708#msg370708

[Blonde Ingrid]

Need a plan B then! Maybe selling snowdrops instead?

Regarding our conversation regarding Mother Goose David, I have noticed another report of a green Mother Goose in Germany on Facebook. Seems the problem is multi-national!

[David Lowndes]

We really need a consistent position on this. Is it a stable yellow or not?  It’s certainly a fine Snowdrop at its best.

[Maggi Young]

That may be tricky, David!  There are those who find it  consistently yellow, those who find it yellow eventually, those who find it steadfastly green  and those who those who find it sometimes yellow and sometimes green.
 Not unusual to find  inconsistency in quite a number of drops - but forewarned can be fore-armed in this as in other cases. 

[Alan_b]

You can say the same for many snowdrops.  I have seen 'Elizabeth Harrison' looking a lovely yellow but the hanging pot in the RHS London display wasn't yellow at all and attracted very little attention.

[David Lowndes]

But we’re not talking pale yellow or olive green or greenish yellow or lime.  It’s as green as grass with no hint of yellow (when it’s green!) so offers no hope that it might eventually become yellow again. But perhaps it will. It’s the inconsistency that concerns me. I have many yellows and they don’t behave like this. It’s quite fascinating in a way.

[Josh Nelson]

That may be tricky, David!  There are those who find it  consistently yellow, those who find it yellow eventually, those who find it steadfastly green  and those who those who find it sometimes yellow and sometimes green.
 Not unusual to find  inconsistency in quite a number of drops - but forewarned can be fore-armed in this as in other cases.

That's why I prefer to buy snowdrops when I can see them doing what they should, Maggi!  Don't have Mother Goose but have a couple of others that haven't been what I might have liked!  When Mother Goose is yellow on a table, I might well be tempted (although it may need to get a bit cheaper first....)

[Blonde Ingrid]

We really need a consist position on this. Is it a stable yellow or not?  It’s certainly a fine Snowdrop at its best.

Good point David, the position as I see it is that Mother Goose is at best unreliable, we have problematic reports from multiple growers, using various growing conditions! Maggi's point makes this very clearly:

those who find it  consistently yellow, those who find it yellow eventually, those who find it steadfastly green  and those who those who find it sometimes yellow and sometimes green

The very definition of unreliable. I agree with David's point:

I have many yellows and they don’t behave like this

Even Carolyn Elwes shows more consistency than Mother Goose and that is saying something, although I hear another yellow is delivering green instead of yellow.

I prefer to buy snowdrops when I can see them doing what they should, Maggi!  Don't have Mother Goose but have a couple of others that haven't been what I might have liked!  When Mother Goose is yellow on a table, I might well be tempted

The problem here Josh, is that Mother Goose often starts yellow, indeed we have had reports of buyers who buy it when yellow, only to have it produce green markings the following year.

The key fact is that you should be able to rely on the seller, who should have performed adequate testing to ensure reliability before sale or if inconsistent results are known, the buyer is informed. I was told in 2016 that I should have been told, when I first informed North Green of the problem in 2015, that it usually takes 3 years to settle down, implying this problem must have been known, by North Green, in 2012, although not shared with potential buyers!!

Contrast this approach with sellers who I trust to the extent that I will take a snowdrop on their description alone without having seen the flower myself and have never been let down.

In the last two catalogues (2107 & 2018) North Green have not included such a warning in the description of Mother Goose, to ensure that buyers have the full picture, despite being advised to do this in 2016!!

it may need to get a bit cheaper first....

It is likely it would be considerably cheaper now Josh, if buyers had been given the full facts before purchasing. I doubt high prices would result from a description saying that 'it might be green, it might be yellow, it might do both, who knows'! A point worth pondering!

To ensure buyers are aware of the issues and the lack of warnings when drops are known to be potentially problematic, I will raise this topic again on the main snowdrop groups at the start of catalogue time next season and those following.

[Bernadette]

[quote author=Blonde Ingrid link=topic=15063.msg389353#msg389353 date=1520500206

The very definition of unreliable. I agree with David's point:

Even Carolyn Elwes shows more consistency than Mother Goose and that is saying something, although I hear another yellow is delivering green instead of yellow.

The problem here Josh, is that Mother Goose often starts yellow, indeed we have had reports of buyers who buy it when yellow, only to have it produce green markings the following year.

The key fact is that you should be able to rely on the seller, who should have performed adequate testing to ensure reliability before sale

Contrast this approach with sellers who I trust to the extent that I will take a snowdrop on their description alone without having seen the flower myself and have never been let down.

In the last two catalogues (2107 & 2018) North Green have not included such a warning in the description of Mother Goose, to ensure that buyers have the full picture, despite being advised to do this in 2016!!

To ensure buyers are aware of the issues and the lack of warnings when drops are known to be potentially problematic, I will raise this topic again on the main snowdrop groups
[/quote]

But Lady Elphinstone and Blonde Inge also do this, and you are not complaining about them.
This year my Lady Elphinstone have been wonderfully yellow but last year not.  Everyone
accepts this and grows it anyway.  Okay Mother Goose is more expensive but considering
how many good classic well known snowdrops North Green have been responsible for I think
you are being harsh.  Just enjoy the pleasure of growing beautiful snowdrops and be
thankful you have the anticipation of what each year brings.

[Maggi Young]

everyone accepts this....

Yes, they do, and  I think it is  useful to have these inconsistencies pointed out for those who do not know - which, I imagine, is the reason Ingrid  asked  the proprietor of North Green to state something along those lines in the catalogue.

[David Lowndes]

Yes Maggi, Mother Goose is new and not well known which is why, if it is not stable, we should be told before we buy.  I love the North Green catalogue and I have many great snowdrops from there. This isn’t a discussion which is meant to offend; it is just a plea for accurate description of a new introduction. Ingrid is absolutely right to pursue this in the interests of fair marketing.

[Blonde Ingrid]

Yes, they do, and  I think it is  useful to have these inconsistencies pointed out for those who do not know - which, I imagine, is the reason Ingrid  asked  the proprietor of North Green to state something along those lines in the catalogue.

Absolutely Maggi, you, David and I agree that the important issue is that buyers make an informed purchase with all relevant information made available.

[Maggi Young]

Indeed Ingrid - I am very keen on transparency in all matters, not just in the  world of Galanthus, whether by Ebayers or  nurseries.