Snowdrop ident please?

[David Nicholson]

Thanks Anne for confusing me further

[Karaba]

Inner marks seems a bit small for ikariae and lots of woronowii are sell under the name ikariae but I'm really not a specialist. In fact, that's why I'm posting here 

I took back from my parent's home these snowdrops with some bulbs of elwesii. I remember buying the elwesii but no other snowdrop and my mum have some nivalis in the garden.
They are shorter than elwesii (which grow 20 cm from this clump) and the two marks of the inner petal are well separated, so, I wonder if it could be a hybrid between elwesii and nivalis. My elwesii seems to be self-sterile since they have made no seeds for at least 3 years.

[Alan_b]

David's second snowdrop (labelled as ikariae) is without doubt woronowii.  Note that the mark on the inner segments is a very flat-topped bridge; the flat top is typical of woronowii and not much seen otherwise.  I am less certain about the first one but would concur with Anne's reasoning for identifying it as ikariae.     

[Alan_b]

I cannot see anything in Karaba's snowdrops to make me doubt that they are pure elwesii.  Elwesii cover a large range of sizes, from quite small to very large indeed.  They generally set seed quite readily so in a large "swarm" you will see a range of sizes and markings.  I think I also see a small green mark at the tip of the outer segments. 

[David Nicholson]

Thanks Alan .

[annew]

Anne would you be able to post that word document either here or in woronowii variations etc ?

Im finding that bulk buying dormant Woronowii a very cost effective and interesting process with considerable variation and so far the best i can do is just identify possible woodland variation against mountian/rock variety. Any extra information be very helpfull.

Unfortunately I can't find a way to make it under 200KB so I can't post it.

[Maggi Young]

Anne would you be able to post that word document either here or in woronowii variations etc ?

  The search facility of the forum is pretty efficient, deee, if you'd like to make your own researches.

[Maggi Young]

Anne W.  has very kindly provided her  compilation of  notes of  galanthus woronowii / ikariae identification - see the link below to download a pdf : 

http://files.srgc.net/general/Woronowii-ikariae-identification-notes-ex-forum.pdf

Thank you, Anne!

[deee]

Anne - thankyou very much for that -- much appreciated !!

[deee]

Really helpfull read -- thankyou --

[Karaba]

I cannot see anything in Karaba's snowdrops to make me doubt that they are pure elwesii.  Elwesii cover a large range of sizes, from quite small to very large indeed.  They generally set seed quite readily so in a large "swarm" you will see a range of sizes and markings.  I think I also see a small green mark at the tip of the outer segments.

Thanks Alan. Yes there's a small green mark on outer segment but the nivalis from my mother's garden have some very small also.
I was a bit surprise because my original elwesii, the one I bought, is tall, with very wide leaves and a big inner mark. It is on the right on the picture below and it hasn't set seeds for the last 3 years (since I bring it back at home) . It staid ~20 years at my parent's home but didn't make a big clump and I wasn't there to see if it made seeds or not...
 
I have now 2 questions (for my curiosity only) that I know the answer will be difficult :
- can a elwesii, tall and with a big green mark on inner petal give by selfseeding a small elwesii with 2 very distant small green marks ?
- how would be an hybrid between nivalis and elwesii ? Is there a caracteristic to differentiate this kind of hybrid with a 'pure' elwesii ?

[Alan_b]

I have now 2 questions (for my curiosity only) that I know the answer will be difficult :
- can a elwesii, tall and with a big green mark on inner petal give by selfseeding a small elwesii with 2 very distant small green marks ?
- how would be an hybrid between nivalis and elwesii ? Is there a caracteristic to differentiate this kind of hybrid with a 'pure' elwesii ?

To answer the second question first, snowdrops thought to be nivalis/elwesii hybrids may have narrower leaves than the typical elwesii and these leaves may not be so clearly supervolute.  But they still look much more like elwesii than nivalis.  And nobody knows if snowdrops of this type really are hybrids or just look as if they might be. 

I cannot directly answer the first question but here are some observations:

•   There isn't much else in flower when snowdrops are in flower and it would not surprise me if the bees, when active, cover quite a wide area when collecting nectar and spreading pollen.
•   If a snowdrop sets seed you can never know if it has self-seeded, been pollinated by some nearby snowdrop or by another one from some distance away.
•   If you look through a large colony of elwesii in cultivation (which admittedly are not common) you will often see a range of sizes and marks, both single and double.           

[Karaba]

Thank you Alan for all these details

[SusanH]

Does anyone know what this Snowdrop is please - I have lost the label and have no earthly idea what it is?
Thanks in anticipation

[Hannelore]

Couls someone please explain me the difference between Galanthus scharlockii and Galanthus Warei?

BW
Hannelore