Narcissus - Spring 2018 (from February onwards)

[ielaba2011]

Yes, Jaime! N. ‘Andy Blanchard’ is the fabulous hybrid between triandrus and cyclamineus.
You can find his further information on the DaffSeek. The hybridiser "annew" is a regular member of this web forum

Thank you YT for the information, first impression was a N. cyclamineus hybrid, but wow with triandrus...it really had to be special, looks gorgeous. Congratulations to Anne Wright for those beautiful gems.

[ielaba2011]

Tatsuo's lovely cantabricus won a first prize at RHS Rosemoor and almost got Best Miniature too, but it was almost going over, and was pipped by Brian Duncan's lovely 'Sleek'. (the cantabricus grew 3cm in the car on the journey!). I flew the flag with my SRGC sweatshirt 

Congratulations Anne,  and thank you for the wonderful photos of the show. That's temptation in a pot!!

Btw, I Loved your Portugal and Spain wild narcisi photos from your web page.

[annew]

Thanks, Jaime - that was the holiday of a lifetime.

[YT]

Congratulations, Anne These are true stunners

[annew]

Thank you for the fantastic N. cantabricus petunioides - it was much admired, and also considered for the best miniature.

[ielaba2011]

More Narcissus bulbocodium. This time N. bulbocodium subsp. bulbocodium, these photos were taken in a field close to a friend's house in a suburban area. It's a quite wet field and much more fertile and "green" than the cliffs where we can find N. obesus.

[annew]

More Narcissus bulbocodium. This time N. bulbocodium subsp. bulbocodium, these photos were taken in a field close to a friend's house in a suburban area. It's a quite wet field and much more fertile and "green" than the cliffs where we can find N. obesus.

How wonderful it must be to have these growing wild nearby.

[Gerdk]

How wonderful it must be to have these growing wild nearby.

I agree with Anne - in my neighborhood there are only some daisies!

Jaime, according the characteristic shape of the corona (leaves are not clearly visible - should be more or less prostrate) I would not
hesitate to call  these  plants also 'obesus'.

Gerd

[ielaba2011]

I agree with Anne - in my neighborhood there are only some daisies!

Jaime, according the characteristic shape of the corona (leaves are not clearly visible - should be more or less prostrate) I would not
hesitate to call  these  plants also 'obesus'.

Gerd

Hi Gerd,
We were a bit puzzled trying to identify these ones, cause they had the charactericitc green marks in the corona more or less evident, maybe a bit paler...so I wasn't not sure, now I know these are also obesus. The other population had a ditinct yellow corona, with any green marks in the back.(Maybe an intermediate population?) I didn't know that the shape of corola played an important part to ID the these 2 subsp. Thank you Gerd.

[ielaba2011]

How wonderful it must be to have these growing wild nearby.

Yes Anne, wonderful to have them just outside your door, they are really special... but also commun, sometimes not treated with all the respect they deserve. Lots of people picking then...

[Harald-Alex.]

a big flower with deeporange dubbled tube shows the variety "Friso" in memory of the dutch prince, who died during Austria holidays

[Gerdk]

Hi Gerd,
We were a bit puzzled trying to identify these ones, cause they had the charactericitc green marks in the corona more or less evident, maybe a bit paler...so I wasn't not sure, now I know these are also obesus. The other population had a ditinct yellow corona, with any green marks in the back.(Maybe an intermediate population?) I didn't know that the shape of corola played an important part to ID the these 2 subsp. Thank you Gerd.

Jaime,
It's not unusual to be puzzled when you try to identify Narcissus (bulbocodium) obesus. My 'daffodil bible' - Narcissus from Blanchard (1990) stated in the beginning: There is more disagreement about this variety than any other.
Even Iberian botanists (Fernandes/Valdes) don't agree whether ' obesus ' should be treated as a species, subspecies or a variety.
This means to me that there must be a lot of variation between plants which are united under the term mentioned.
Besides this I believe that a species with a such large distribution (Portugal/Spain/Morocco) necessarely  might not be uniform.

Personally I prefer a (nonscientific) simple view and call all plants as Narcissus obesus which show the characteristics of rather large flowers, a deep yellow corona, which incurve at the margin, held on short stems in connection with prostrate and fleshy stems.
It would be interesting if you  let us know how uniform the plants within the populations you mentioned here are.

Gerd

[Karaba]

I think that Jaime refer to this : http://flora-on.pt/#/d20 Lots of pictures of both species on the same site which show the variety in height of stem and form of the corolla : http://flora-on.pt/#/1Narcissus+bulbocodium

From a genetic point of view, Fonseca et al. (2015) (https://www.repository.utl.pt/bitstream/10400.5/14987/1/REP-JCCOSTA-Phylogenenetic%20approach%20of%20the%20section%20Bulbocodii-1.pdf be careful figures are mixed !) have shown that N. obesus has its organella (mitochondry + chloroplast) closer to cantabricus than other bulbocodium species. This have been also shown in the last study on the phylogeny of Narcissus. The nuclear phylogeny is different, obesus is closer that other bulbocodium species which suggest an old hybridisation. Anyway, with those studies, Narcissus obesus is now usually consider as a valid species and one of the most distinct of the bulbocodium like species.

[annew]

Jaime,
It's not unusual to be puzzled when you try to identify Narcissus (bulbocodium) obesus. My 'daffodil bible' - Narcissus from Blanchard (1990) stated in the beginning: There is more disagreement about this variety than any other.
Even Iberian botanists (Fernandes/Valdes) don't agree whether ' obesus ' should be treated as a species, subspecies or a variety.
This means to me that there must be a lot of variation between plants which are united under the term mentioned.
Besides this I believe that a species with a such large distribution (Portugal/Spain/Morocco) necessarely  might not be uniform.

Personally I prefer a (nonscientific) simple view and call all plants as Narcissus obesus which show the characteristics of rather large flowers, a deep yellow corona, which incurve at the margin, held on short stems in connection with prostrate and fleshy stems.
It would be interesting if you  let us know how uniform the plants within the populations you mentioned here are.

Gerd

I'm with you Gerd.

[Gerdk]

Thank you both Anne & Ivain!

@ Ivain: Thank you for the links, especially to the Fonseca et al. paper, which is new to me. I see it makes sense to treat Narcissus obesus as a valid species and I am surprised that the RHS did not realise that in the latest update of Botanical names on the genus Narcissus from december 18th 2017.
From own experience it remains to me that the determination of some bulbocodium populations in their natural surroundings due to their wide morphological variation can be nearly impossible.

Gerd