We hope you have enjoyed the SRGC Forum. You can make a Paypal donation to the SRGC by clicking the above button

Author Topic: Themidaceae 2018  (Read 4249 times)

Robert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Country: us
  • All text and photos © Robert Barnard
Themidaceae 2018
« on: March 17, 2018, 06:47:59 PM »


The first of the Triteleia laxa to bloom. It is a little roughed-up from the recent stormy weather. This form is typical of the species and is from Lake County, California.
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

To forget how to dig the earth and tend the soil is to forget ourselves.

Mohandas K. Gandhi

fermi de Sousa

  • Far flung friendly fyzzio
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7540
  • Country: au
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2018, 12:31:27 AM »
Wow, Robert,
that seems very early!
Over here we don't expect T. laxa till after daffodil season!
Your pic reminds me of the form called 'The Giant' (or "Giant Ithuriel's Spear")
which is one of the last themid's to bloom here.
Keep them coming regardless ;D
cheers
fermi
Mr Fermi de Sousa, Redesdale,
Victoria, Australia

Robert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Country: us
  • All text and photos © Robert Barnard
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2018, 01:40:14 PM »
Hi Fermi,

Triteleia laxa is an early blooming species, however you are correct, this is an extremely early blooming specimen. Many species from the Coastal Mountains come into bloom before the same species will bloom in the Sacramento Valley or the Sierra Nevada foothills. In our garden, this Triteleia laxa specimen is far ahead of other accessions I have from the Coastal Mountains. The others are budded, however they will not be blooming for another two weeks or even more. A few local, early blooming patches that I am aware of have not started blooming yet, but they will soon.

I have the same situation with Dichelostemma capitatum. Most of the accessions are showing their flower buds but will not be blooming until early April. I have one seedling selection that consistently starts blooming in early February (the seed was from Southern California). I can extend this variability to Triteleia ixioides. I have high elevation forms of Triteleia ixioides ssp. anilina that emerge from the ground very late. Other forms of Triteleia ixioides ssp. scabra emerge much earlier and the flower buds can now be seen. They will be blooming in April, while the high elevation forms of ssp. anilina will not bloom until May. This certainly extends the blooming season.

This only discusses blooming time. Variation in other traits can be observed, such as flower color. Occasionally, I see nice pink forms of Triteleia laxa and Brodiaea elegans ssp. elegans. There are other variations in flower color too.

Sadly locally, the Themidaceae have been maligned as weedy pests. I guess this is good news for me, as I see tremendous potential within the group and I can work quietly on my own. I am already making progress selecting and breeding superior forms. I will have more to share as the season progresses.
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

To forget how to dig the earth and tend the soil is to forget ourselves.

Mohandas K. Gandhi

Robert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Country: us
  • All text and photos © Robert Barnard
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2018, 02:40:37 PM »


Triteleia ixioides ssp scabra.

With warm sunny weather this week many more Themedaceae will most likely come into bloom.
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

To forget how to dig the earth and tend the soil is to forget ourselves.

Mohandas K. Gandhi

Bart

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
  • Country: england
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2018, 05:27:35 PM »
Brodiaea elegans, or at least that is what I think, in flower in a 3l pot in the conservatory. Pictures on the web do not normally show such an abundant 'umbrella' of flowers on a stalk, so maybe this is something else?

619662-0
Brodiaea elegans


There appears to be a confusion of Brodiaea and Tritelia. I don't know what the differences are botanically, but they are quite different in appearance. I had T. 'Queen Fabiola' in the garden, but this year it hasn't surfaced so can't compare!

Maggi Young

  • Forum Dogsbody
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44766
  • Country: scotland
  • "There's often a clue"
    • International Rock Gardener e-magazine
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2018, 07:08:05 PM »
In both Brodiaea and Triteleia there  seem to be  quite a few plant which  are synonymous with eachother, let alone others in their own genus and  Tristagma,  etc -  I'm confused - hope you find an answer, it's  a good plant!
Margaret Young in Aberdeen, North East Scotland Zone 7 -ish!

Editor: International Rock Gardener e-magazine

Robert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Country: us
  • All text and photos © Robert Barnard
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2018, 01:32:17 AM »


Hi Bart,

Yes, you indeed have an attractive Brodiaea. With this posting is a photograph of Brodiaea elegans ssp. elegans taken this a.m. at our farm here in El Dorado County, California. I hope that it is clear the difference in the general shape of the perianth, as well as the placement of the staminodes (or lack of) between the two plants and the recurved anthers (your plant). I cannot see enough of the details of your Brodiaea to make a determination to the species level, however it does look a bit like Brodiaea rosea (please check your plant carefully and make your own determination). If the plant is from wild seed, you might try keying it out using Jepson online – http://ucjeps.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/get_IJM.pl?key=9493 Keep in mind that extreme climatic conditions (extreme, relative to its native habitat) can occasionally cause a degree of morphological difference from a plant in its native habitat. In your case, determination to the species level looks straightforward. Also keep in mind that taxonomy is an ever-evolving science and to a degree an art. Even in our part of California there is a considerable amount of fieldwork that needs to be done to clarify taxonomic issues.

It is extremely easy to recognize a Brodiaea, Dichelostemma, or Triteleia, once all grouped together in the genus Brodiaea. There are clear differences, as stated below:

Brodiaea – generally 3 staminodes, sometimes none. Stamens 3 , the anthers are appressed to the style.

Dichelostemma – staminodes generally 0, stamens generally 3, with the filaments forming a crown-like tube outside the anthers.

Triteleia – stamens 6 attached to the perianth tube.

Anyway, congratulation! Your Brodiaea is beautiful and very well grown.

Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

To forget how to dig the earth and tend the soil is to forget ourselves.

Mohandas K. Gandhi

Bart

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
  • Country: england
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2018, 02:30:52 PM »
Thank you Robert and Maggi.
I had a look at the link Robert but quickly became bamboozled by the botanical terms for all the 'bits'. I made a few more pics and also did some measuring.

The whole flower stalk stands at 50cm- That in itself doesn't add up if you look at the key- most of them seem a lot shorter. There are 30 individual flowers that sprout off the main flower stalk at  35cm height; the florets measure 15cm including the ovary and perianth.

619674-0

619676-1

How do you measure the size of the perianth? the coloured bit of the flower is 60mm across and about 30mm high. The ovary is about 20mm high.

there are 3 stamens and 1 stigma that seems to exsert itself as the flower matures. The staminodes are about 20mm x 5mm and have a little inny bit at the top where the two halves meet :).
They appear uniformly coloured and are off-white.
I'll have a careful read through the key, but maybe you can make something of my info? Ah, the plant was not seed-raised but came to me as a 'lucky dip' of bulbils and bulblets of all sorts of bulb debris that would have been binned at a plant centre that did- and does sell all sorts of unusual bulbs, mostly commercial imports from Holland if I remeber rightly.





Robert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Country: us
  • All text and photos © Robert Barnard
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2018, 03:49:56 PM »
Hi Bart,

Thank you for the additional photographs! and information.

Hummmm?   You have me asking a lot of questions in my head now. FUN!  :)

Now, I have my doubts that the plant is a Brodiaea!

From what you are writing, seems that you are understanding the key well. Your difficulties may stem from the fact that the plant is another member of the Themidaceae. My solution would be to start at the Genus level and make sure that it keys to the correct genus. Often it can even be helpful to go back to the Family level. Think of the whole Boraginaceae - Hydrophyllaceae rearrangement. Since the plant is of cultivated origins all bets are off. A hybrid is possible. In the wild, natural annual Phacelia hybrids can be extremely difficult to sort out. With cultivated plants of potential hybrid origins, the situation becomes even more problematic (i.e. who could mommy and daddy be?).

At least you know that the plant is not Brodiaea elegans ssp. elegans.

Good luck. Please let us know what you discover about this plant.  8)
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

To forget how to dig the earth and tend the soil is to forget ourselves.

Mohandas K. Gandhi

ashley

  • Pops in from Cork
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2849
  • Country: ie
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2018, 06:09:59 PM »
Maybe a hybrid involving e.g. Brodiaea californica?
Ashley Allshire, Cork, Ireland

Robert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Country: us
  • All text and photos © Robert Barnard
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2018, 06:52:03 PM »
Maybe a hybrid involving e.g. Brodiaea californica?

Ashley,

Very  8)

If you are not spot on, you are very close with Brodiaea californica.

Bart,

I hope that you read the description for Brodiaea california and see if it matches.
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

To forget how to dig the earth and tend the soil is to forget ourselves.

Mohandas K. Gandhi

Bart

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
  • Country: england
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2018, 09:43:07 PM »
Yes, I quickly googled the assortment some Dutch bulb wholesalers carry and Brodiae  californica ‘Babylon Pink’ popped up. I know that this selection wasn’t around when I got the bulblet’s but I looked up some pictures and apart from the colour I think it must be close. Thank you both, I do some more homework in the morning and let you know!

fermi de Sousa

  • Far flung friendly fyzzio
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7540
  • Country: au
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2018, 02:27:07 PM »
1 & 2) Triteleia ixioides flowering in the garden;
3) Triteleia dudleyi grown from  SRGC Seedex 2015; sown 21-05-2016
4 & 5) unnamed Brodiaea which came up in another pot!
cheers
fermi
Mr Fermi de Sousa, Redesdale,
Victoria, Australia

Robert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4878
  • Country: us
  • All text and photos © Robert Barnard
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2018, 06:30:04 AM »
Fermi,

It is nice to get a show of the Themidaceae this time of year (here in the north).   8)

When I get time I will check them out closely. I already have questions concerning Triteleia dudleyi which will require more time and examination.

Currently I grow three subspecies of Triteleia ixioides. Subspecies anilina from higher elevations maintains its late blooming sequence even down here in the Sacramento Valley (near sea level). This year I found some high elevation forms of Triteleia hyacinthina and Brodiaea elegans ssp. elegans. Judging from the sites, I believe they arrived at these site via livestock during the period 1860 to 1880. If true, they have certainly adjusted well to the new environment. How they will preform in the garden is an exciting prospect as there are often surprises in these cases.
Robert Barnard
Sacramento & Placerville, Northern California, U.S.A.
All text and photos © Robert Barnard

To forget how to dig the earth and tend the soil is to forget ourselves.

Mohandas K. Gandhi

fermi de Sousa

  • Far flung friendly fyzzio
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7540
  • Country: au
Re: Themidaceae 2018
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2018, 01:54:06 PM »
Hi Robert,
I'll try to get a couple more pics of the T. dudleyi as the other spikes come into bloom. I had mistakenly thought this was the pot of Triteleia laxa seedlings but they aren't yet flowering size.
More of the Themids will be flowering soon and I'll try to get pics as they come into bloom,
cheers
fermi
Mr Fermi de Sousa, Redesdale,
Victoria, Australia

 


Scottish Rock Garden Club is a Charity registered with Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR): SC000942
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal