Galanthus January 2007

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Thanks for the extensive explanation guys !
I'm an absolute -non- galantophile so far... but you are all making it difficult to keep it like that 
I might be tempted to have a go at a couple of these special doubles....

[mark smyth]

I have had 'all' the Greatorex doubles. Different sources have different bulbs

[Paddy Tobin]

Mark,

When you say 'different sources have different bulbs", do you mean that what you receive from one supplier for, let us say G.'Lavinia', will be different from what another will supply or that one can source the various Greatorex doubles by searching through a range of suppliers?

Long winded, I'm afraid, but I hope you grasp what it is I have in mind.

And when you say 'have had', do you mean they 'died on you' (do you think some of them are not the best in the garden?) or that you tired of them and passed them on.

God, I am inquisitive!  But then, never ask; never learn!

Paddy

[Maggi Young]

Okay, Paddy, you be nosey, I'll be interfering : I wouldn't be a bit surprised if six suppliers each sold a different, so-called 'Lavinia'
I think Mark means he has sourced all the greatorex doubles and most likely still has 'em.

I have a few of the old doubles, all from old family gardens, nice enough and stand up well enough to weather.

We've got some shoots up... it'll be a wee while before we have a flower though.

[Lesley Cox]

I guess Mark means that some nurseries (sources) have some doubles, others have other (different) doubles. Yes Mark?

I hope those of you who have `Hill Poe' will post pictures in due course, not only in a general way but also showing detail both inside and outside. For years a double has been distributed as this in NZ but we now think it is probably `Jacquenetta.' It would therefore be great to have some definitive pictures. Thanks lads.

[mark smyth]

no, what I have as Lavinia wont necessarily be what what Lesley supplies as Lavinia. One that can be told at a glance is 'Cordelia' with her raised 'arms'. I've had most of those supplied and now label them in the double bed as Greatorex double. I'm buying them one more time this year just to see

[Paddy Tobin]

Yes, Mark,

I do like the 'helicopter wings' as I call them myself - 'raised arms' as you call them - this indicates that you must have young children!

Whatever we call them, I'm sure someone has an official-type term,  the raised outer segments add greatly to the charm of a snowdrop I think. Of course, this is only a personal preference.

Your 'Cordelia' is beautiful. Mine is above ground, flower coming along well, but is keeping itself tucked in as yet in this dreadful weather. Hope to see it soon, great plant indeed.

As for my query re cultivation of the Greatorex doubles - I can't remember which but I  know I lost a clump of one of the doubles a few years ago for no obvious reason, couldn't figure it out at all, completely stumped, growing where there were other snowdrop clumps which were in perfect good health. They just didn't arrive one year, dug up and found no bulbs, complete mystery.

And on the supply question - the doubt about  what is received from a supplier, I feel I have been lucky to date but I can definitely see that mistakes can be made and plants then grown on incorrectly labelled as a result. All adds to the fun of the gardener. Many thanks for reply. P.

Lesley,
As soon as G. 'Hill Poe' comes out I will post a photograph. Chris has it more advanced than I at present. Mine are not even above ground at the moment. Will wait  patiently.

Paddy

[Paddy Tobin]

Lesely,

After a search over photographs from past years I have two photographs of G. 'Hill Poe'.

 I realise you would like a clearer photograph of the inner segments for comparison purposes and I will try to remember that when it is in flower again. G. 'Hill Poe' is noted for the perfectly neat arrangement of the inner segments, all very well organised and tidy.

These photographs were taken in March of 2003.

Paddy

[Lesley Cox]

Thanks Paddy. I'll have to refer back to these in the right season of course. Is it correct that Hill Poe is pronounced as Hill Po-ee?

[Paddy Tobin]

Lesley,

That's how I pronounce it anyway, Pooeee, and how I have heard others pronounce it also. It is written with one of those double dots above the 'o' but I am too lazy to go and search out that feature in 'Word'. When it comes into flower this year I will make an effort to get good clear photographs for you.


At risk of boring you, please allow me to quote from 'A Heritage of Beauty' by Dr. Charles Nelson, a publication of the Irish Garden Plant Society which deals with plants of Irish origin or connection:

'Hill Poe'
Date of origin: c 1900
Syn. G. plicatus "double"
Double snowdrop, usually with 5 outer tepals, white, and a mass (15 - 25) of evenly arranged and evenly sized inner tepals; a very regular flower, leaves grey-green, to 15cm long.
Origin: from James Hill Poe, Riverston, Nenagh, Co. Tipperary.

The best of the "double" snowdrops, this arose among wild snowdrops growing under a walnut tree in front of Riverston. It was introduced by the Giant Snowdrop Company, Hyde Lodge, Chalford, Gloucestershire, England, in the 1950s, the stock probably having been provided by David Shackleton, Beech Park, Clonsilla, Co. Dublin.

In a letter from Grallagh, Nenagh, Co. Tipperary (dated 12 February[no year]), to Miss Christine Shackleton, Miss Blanche Poe related the history:

"The snowdrops you ask about are the double Crimean ones. They are not species but a sport found by my father years ago growing under the walnut tree near the diningroom window at Riverston, you may remember there were masses of all sorts of spring flowers there. My father's Christian name was Hill, my Uncle's name was Bennett-Poe who was well known in the gardening world.
 
By the way, Riverston garden is a wilderness now, I hear you can't even see the paths in the walled garden, a pity"

Awards: PC (RHS 19 February 1974)

The entry goes on to give references which I will not include here.

As an Irish snowdrop it holds a special place in my garden. The Irish Garden Plant Society is an organisation with aims very similar to those of the NCCPG, National Council for the Conservation of Plants and Gardens. I am a long time member of the IGPS and the present editor of the quarterly newsletter.

Paddy

[mark smyth]

Paddy it's not the raised petals that indicate 'Cordelia' but the raised arms above the inner mark. In good examples there should be no smudge between the two

[Diane Whitehead]

Now I'm confused about Cordelia.  When you're saying 'above'
are you referring to the way the flower is presented to our view,
ie upside down?  Or do I have to imagine it turned rightside up?

What I see in your picture: a pair of solid dark green legs, then
a pale green rectangular body.  If that body is instead two pale green
upraised arms, then I see the same pale green colour between them.
Or is that an artifact of the photo?

[Lesley Cox]

Thanks so much Paddy. Far from boring me, I'm delighted with your extra information and history, all new to me. Isn't Miss Blanche's comment so sad but so often appropriate - that an old or previously wonderful garden is now "a wilderness." I guess it happens all over the world when the people who made it in the first place move away or die and others with less knowledge and less commitment take over. And some of course, like my small but rather decent garden in Timaru up the coast, disappear altogether. It was bulldozed for new housing.

[Joakim B]

Lesley I hope You were able to take some of the plants befor the bulldozers came.

[mark smyth]

This is the inner petal of 'Cordelia' showing the raised arms