paeonia seed, germination help?

[robsorchids]

managed to get a hold of the true suffrocticosa rockii, as well as ostii and tenuifolia seed.

im sure i read somewhere that peony seed requires some vernalisation over winter to breack dormancy? or is this only for the lutea species?

the supplier said a soak overnight is suifficent

anyhelp will be greatly appreciatd if anyone can tell me how to sow them, if there is anything else i need to do, and the mix of the soil and where i should keep the seed trays.

i hope to sow them tomorow if possible

thanks so much

rob

[Hjalmar]

There is a short note at the home page of the Swedish garden society Trädgårdsamatörerna which could be interesting to you. It is in Swedish, but there are some pictures. The problem is the site is built so you can't link to individual pages (that is, I can't figure out how to do it).  You have to go to http://www.tradgardsamatorerna.nu/index2.html, then click on "Nytt", "Artiklar", scroll down and click "Läs själv".

Anyway, the idea is to sow in sphagnum moss. Keep pots at room temperature. When the shoots are about 2 centimeters (middle pictures) the pots are put in the fridge for a few months. When the first leaf starts appearing (bottom left picture) the seeds are transferred to soil. It seems the advantage of this method is in speed. If you just sow in pots and leave them outsides it can take several years before anything appears above ground, with this method just a few months. I haven't tried it myself though. The fridge tends to fill up with less important things like food.

[Rodger Whitlock]

im sure i read somewhere that peony seed requires some vernalisation over winter to break dormancy? or is this only for the lutea species?

Over the years I have had great success with dry peony seed received from various exchanges in late winter. I would soak it for 1 or 2 weeks in water with a drop of dish liquid added, changing the water if it became cloudy. It was then sown in a soil-based mixture, topped with about 1 cm fine gravel, and put in a shaded cold frame.

Germination usually occurred the next spring. I would leave the seedlings in their pot for at least another year before disturbing them.

A deep seed pot is recommended, as peony seedlings have long roots.

Sorry my reply is too late to help you, but perhaps others will take heart from this information. Peonies have a reputation for being hard to germinate,  but I have never found them difficult.

[David Nicholson]

Very timely Roger. I sowed Paeonias officinales, anomala, delavayi angustiloba, delavayi lutea, and broteroi yesterday having soaked them for a week in water with a dash of washing-up liquid, changed every day. They were sown in JI seed compost with added sand and grit, covered with a layer of course grit and placed in my little seed frame open to the weather.

I now await next Spring with great interest! The months in-between I shall spend thinking about where on earth I'm going to plant all these seedlings in three or four years time.

[Luc Gilgemyn]

I recognize the problem David (and I'm sure a lot of us do) 

[Hans J]

David ,

If the seeds are fresh and well stored so it is not a problem ,but I suppose think they are from last year .....

I have made often this methode with soaking older seeds -if they laying on the bottom of the jar so you can sowing it .

I would like suggest all :
try to get fresh seeds .......

[Hans J]

Hi all ,

after some hours with searching I have found my old drawning ( made for some friends before many years)
about sowing peonies ....

[David Nicholson]

David ,

If the seeds are fresh and well stored so it is not a problem ,but I suppose think they are from last year .....

I have made often this methode with soaking older seeds -if they laying on the bottom of the jar so you can sowing it .

I would like suggest all :
try to get fresh seeds .......

Hans, the seed was from the last SRGC Seed Exchange. Your drawing is very useful.

[Hans J]

Sorry to say -but I'm not a big fan of this yearly seed exchanges .....for many seed is this not well !!!

Maybe I will have in fall some seeds from my peonies .....

[johnw]

Hans  - Last October we received many fresh seeds of Paeonia suffruticosa v. spontanea from Stefan Mattson in Sweden.  Most tree peonies do not do well here in cold winters but this one is so hardy Stefan has used it extensively in his landscaping of the town of Enkoping. (His work can be viewed at www.enkoping.se/parks/   - click on Information/Pictures on the left, then click on each of the various parks on the left, if I remember correctly the Dream Park started the new vision of the city, a remarkable display of the best perennials) It is important we don't lose these seedlings as we did in 2006. That year the seeds came up but all quickly died and many of the seed coats pinched the emerging seed leaves so hard that the leaves could not emerge. Squeezing the seed invariably broke off the seedling at the base.

In October 2007 we placed the new seed in plastic bags with moistened green sphagnum moss and kept them at room temperature (18-21c) until roots emerged. Then they were potted in deep pots and moved to the cold room under fluorescents at 8-12c. Most are just poking through the soil now. Should we now move them to the greenhouse where there is more light and warmth (15-25c) or wait until emergence is complete and good top growth is apparent? Should we keep the pots on the dry side?

Any help would be appreciated.

johnw

[Hans J]

Hi John ,

Here few words :
First I would try to get seeds of P. rockii -it is much harder than P. suffruticosa .
I dont know why you have such problems when emerge the leaves from the seed ....maybe it's would better to hold in in more shade ...but i can really nothing say without seeing
To your new seedlings : Please realize that peonies are mountain plants - they need no big heat !
They grow on rocky hill -always between big stones and in shade of trees and rocks -you have to give the first years always ligth shade -they can burn easy !!!
I would take the pots outside in the shade where is a lot of fresh air

Good luck
Hans

[johnw]

Hi John ,

Here few words :
First I would try to get seeds of P. rockii -it is much harder than P. suffruticosa .
I dont know why you have such problems when emerge the leaves from the seed ....maybe it's would better to hold in in more shade ...but i can really nothing say without seeing
To your new seedlings : Please realize that peonies are mountain plants - they need no big heat !
They grow on rocky hill -always between big stones and in shade of trees and rocks -you have to give the first years always ligth shade -they can burn easy !!!
I would take the pots outside in the shade where is a lot of fresh air

Good luck
Hans

Hans - Thanks for your recommendations. I will try much less sun when I put them outside in a few weeks.  I think our long bouts of fog in the summer may have caused the rotting after the few that managed to leaf out started growing. It is too late now but your idea of 3cm of sharp sand on the soil surface might have helped with that.

I notice this year the seed coat has only pinched the tip the seed leaves. Hence the true leaves are able to emerge, it is almost as if the seed coat emerged too early (staying underground longer would have made them less hard). I will try to photograph tonight.

When should I start to fertilize them and would Potash be helpful?

johnw

[Hans J]

John ,

As you can see on my drawning I use for sowing so called here NULLERDE ( this means without any fertilizer ) -it is a special soil for sowing ( Tobaco plants and similar ) - my suggestion is :
When you repot the seedlings ( after one or two years ) so use normal garden soil ( with fertilizer ) -later you can use Osmocote -and when they free in borders use normal mineralic fertilizer ( I like not organic fertilizer -it makes problems with fungi ).
If the seedlings are all germinatet and the leaves emerged so you can use a liquid fertilizer ....but peonies need not so much fertilizer ....
I can say not much to Potash - we can not buy this here in germany ....in our fertilizer is a part of Kalium and Magnesium - we can only add in fall a product called PATENTKALI -but I have it never used for my peonies ....

[Lvandelft]

Hans, you have to look for Kaliumsulfat or Kaliumsulphat. (sulfat de potas)
When you try to google with "kaliumsulfat kaufen" you will see that you can buy this
in Germany as well.
Here in Holland we can buy it too!

[Hans J]

Hi Luc ,

We had a lot of discussion to this point last yer -please look here :
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=191.msg3630#msg3630