arisaema seeds

[Véronique Macrelle]

you're lucky if you still have an abundance of insects at home.
Here, it's been a few years since hoverflies, bumblebees and butterflies disappeared from the garden. Even the flies don't seem that numerous any more. It's a bit strange: they came in 2 or 3 waves and then disappeared just as quickly.

In the garden, I'm feeling it more and more when it comes to collecting seeds for swaps and harvesting fruit.
the only blackcurrant bush that produced this year was a plant bought as being self-pollinating.
a Campanula pyramidalis flowered for 2 to 3 months... and yet I wasn't able to collect any seeds!

The weather here in 2024 wasn't too bad, with just one hot spell and rain every 10 days or so: the plants finally enjoyed it, even if some of the trees didn't recover from the previous 2 years of drought.

[Jeffnz]

Are you close to agricultural properties that may be using insecticides that will kill bees and the like?
In some places this has seen bee populations reduced or wiped out completely. Here we have illimitations on a range of insecticides sales to home gardeners, the applied logic being that DIY users are using such products indiscriminately. However commercial agriculture activity is not so heavily censored.

[Véronique Macrelle]

Yes, there are arable fields just behind the garden, on the other side of my hedge.

[Jeffnz]

Neonicotinoids are a group of insecticides used widely on farms and in urban landscapes. They are absorbed by plants and can be present in pollen and nectar, making them toxic to bees.
I recall many years' ago seeing a you tube video of an orcharding area in China where pear flowers were being hand pollinated to achieve fruit set, the cause was intensive long term use of pesticides.
Not sure of your relationship with your farming neighbors but a polite question as to what pesticides they are using may give an explanation of bee decline. Farmers are often sensitive to any questions on their use of chemicals as they are a necessary evil to achieving good crop yields, that latter usually the only focus of the farmers.

[Vinny 123]

Neonic's with a very few exceptions, are banned in the EU and UK and have been for several years. The exceptions have been primarily non-flowering crops, such as sugar beet. With only 4 beet processing factories still operating within the UK, beet is a realtively uncommon crop now as it is uneconomic to transport it far to be processed.
That said, recent research suggests that despite neonic's being used in minute amounts and also readily broken down by soil microbes, enough does survive in the soil to be problematic (including via run-off and uptake by wild plants ("weeds"), which do flower and pose problems for insects).

The big agricultural problem is aphids, not so much in themselves, but as vectors for virus diseases.

What class of compound is the pesticide of choice for field crops now, I don't know, although a browse of a UK/EU agrucultural supplier would answer that.

If weather is poor, insect numbers plummet, or more accurately, never build up.

[Leena]

Veronique, have I offered you Arisaema 'Bockii' seeds?
It is a good and vigorous plant here and I have bought it from Sulev Savisaar.
He wrote in his catalogue about it:
Since about 1993, the Moscow Main Botanical Garden has been distributing seeds around the world under the misleading name Arisaema bockii, which is not really a true species growing in Sichuan, China (within the variability of Arisaema yunnanense ), but rather A.amurense. To celebrate this special form of amurense, I have christened it 'Bockii'. In my garden, it is the most beautiful of the A.amurense. Its dark purple inflorescence bracts have green streaks. As the inflorescence is shorter than the leaf stalks (in the real A. bockiion the contrary!), the beautiful inflorescence bracts tend to remain in the shade in May and June. The height of the foliage in the garden reaches 70 cm in the middle of July, the fruit reaches only 40 cm.

[Véronique Macrelle]

Ah Leena! Your Arisaema ‘Bockii’ seems very interesting to me, with its giant amurense shape. I have a weakness for very large Arisaemas, or those with remarkable or imposing leaves, such as costatum or the immature fargesii.
 Arisaema flowers are attractive, but their leaves are more durable and often just as remarkable.
What's more, if it's vigorous, all the better!

[Leena]

I will send the seeds to you next week. They are still in the berries, I will have to wash and dry them first.

[Véronique Macrelle]

Oh thanks, that's great ! I don't mind if they're still in their fruit, but if it's damp, it'll be heavier...

[Véronique Macrelle]

Leena, I went to see what he said about A. bockii on the facebook group for Arisaema.
It seems to be an Arisaema engleri, the name bockii referred to an earlier but incomplete description. Perhaps it should be called Arisaema bockii/engleri.
 It's so beautiful!  :)Both the leaves and the flowers...

[Leena]

Leena, I went to see what he said about A. bockii on the facebook group for Arisaema.
It seems to be an Arisaema engleri, the name bockii referred to an earlier but incomplete description. Perhaps it should be called Arisaema bockii/engleri.
 It's so beautiful!  :)Both the leaves and the flowers...

Thank you for this info! I didn't know it.

[Ben Candlin]

Hi Leena and Veronique,

I just thought I'd jump in and try and clear up a few things regarding any confusion over the name Arisaema bockii and for anyone else reading (as the genus Arisaema has more than enough name confusion already..)

Leena - your plant is Arisaema amurense (a very variable species, with many different forms in the wild and cultivation). Yours sounds like a good rubust plant. But you'd be wise not to follow Sulev Savisaar and circulate it under the name 'bockii' (either as a species name or cultivar name) as it will lead to confusion!

The reason being - in the latest version of the Flora of China, the plant that many people know as Arisaema engleri has been renamed Arisaema bockii. Valid arguements exist for naming this plant either 'engleri' or 'bockii', and depending on who you ask, you'll get different answers as to which name is correct (way above my pay grade!) Whatever this plant should be called, it has nothing to do with A.yunnanense, or A.amurense.

Veronique - I hope you can track down some fresh Arisaema seeds!

[Véronique Macrelle]

thanks Ben,

I'd realised it was a very fine specimen of amurense

[Leena]

Leena - your plant is Arisaema amurense (a very variable species, with many different forms in the wild and cultivation). Yours sounds like a good rubust plant. But you'd be wise not to follow Sulev Savisaar and circulate it under the name 'bockii' (either as a species name or cultivar name) as it will lead to confusion!

The reason being - in the latest version of the Flora of China, the plant that many people know as Arisaema engleri has been renamed Arisaema bockii. Valid arguements exist for naming this plant either 'engleri' or 'bockii', and depending on who you ask, you'll get different answers as to which name is correct (way above my pay grade!) Whatever this plant should be called, it has nothing to do with A.yunnanense, or A.amurense.

Thanks Ben.
Yes, this is a good and robust plant, and when I had googled it seems indeed that there are different plants under the name A.engleri, some which look a bit like mine, and some not. My plant does look more like A.amurense though it is more vigorous and bigger with different colour "flower" than my other A.amurense, but it is a very variable species. I haven't sent it's seeds to the exchange because its name hasn't been clear.

[Véronique Macrelle]

and I've noticed that the list of online grianes is growing nicely.

and that I have more desires than I can order in bags! as usual...