Arum maculatum 'Bakovci'

[Vinny 123]

It sounds like the fungicide was far, far, far from diluted correctly.

It will have been in an organic solvent carrier, which was probably what did the damage, not the fungicide.

As far as genetic changes go, that seems exceedingly unlikely, not least because some gained normal growth. Genetic mutations take genetic intervention to reverse, as is beginning to happen in humans, using viruses to transport "new" DNA into human cells, to "cure" genetic disease.

Monstrose and crested cacti (and succulents) are common enough without any intervention using chemicals. As above, I have a very odd Sanseveria seedling this year - they make a large root-plate after gemination - the beginning of the rhizome - and that bloated and produced two contorted leaves. In the past I had a Mamm. hernandezii that suddenly formed a crest - it was about as large as the species ever gets and plenty lusted after it, before it turned to mush.

[Mariette]

Vinny, I think that my pics and explanations clearly show that the variegation of Arum maculatum ´Bakovci´ is passed on to seedlings. As You started a discussion whether this variegation is caused by virus versus chimerism, I understood Your question for named varieties as one for named cultivars, which there are, not subspecies, of course.

Variegation caused by virus may be harmless and simply of decorative value, but in other cases lethal to plants, depending on the kind of virus and the constitution of the plant. Galanthus, for instance, may suffer from a virus with which they can cope, or another one which kills them. Therefore, virus-diseased snowdrops are dreaded by collectors of this species.

@ Robert: Thank You for Your valuable contributions! As a botanist and farmer, You´re of course well acquainted with the matter. Many viruses which are a problem for agricultural crops spread to ornamental plants, unfortunately.

@ Véronique: I´m glad that Arum maculatum ´Bakovci´does well for You, as many friends find it difficult to grow. Thank You, also, for mentioning chemical damage as a cause for variegation. In the past, I collected a good deal of variegated plants or some with unusual colouring of the flowers, which looked quite normal later. The reason was obviously the application of a herbicide nearby.

[Vinny 123]

Very obviously variegation is passed via seed. I have not suggested otherwise, but did state the equally obvious - it is random. I do not understand your point.

No, I did not start a conversation about virus v. chimerism.

There are essentially countless viruses in this world, probably 99.99% of them totally harmless to most living things. I supposedly had covid Q3 2020, but it was asymptomatic.
That said numerous plants are badly affected by mosaic viruses, which are generally specific to specific families - such as the one(s) affecting tobacco, potaoes and tomatoes.
Within the UK, Scotland is a preferred source for many seeds (not least seed potatoes), as aphids, the common vector for viruses, are uncommon.
Again, I am unsure of your point.

[Vinny 123]

Quite possibly the exact opposite information can be found online, this was just the first one that I happened to find -

https://tradescantia.uk/article/variegation-and-colour/

"Seeds from a variegated chimera will only have one set of genetics – which means every seedling will either be pure white (and die shortly after germinating, if it manages to germinate at all), or plain green. Tissue culture techniques which are used to mass-produce plants by cloning tiny leaf samples also usually have the same result, because any individual leaf sample can only grow into either a pure white or pure green plant."

[Mariette]

Sorry if my English is too poor to be understood!

My intention was to encourage Véronique to raise seedlings of Arum maculatum ´Bakovci´, as some will show yellow variegation. My aim was simply to present the facts I happened to notice.

I don't think that any vars are recognised?

Walking 100's of metres of the right hedgerow here in the UK, you can walk past literally 1000's of plants with every variation imaginable (except variegation).

Virus infection seems extremely likely as the source of variegation.

Botanical variegation of Arum maculatum is presented in form of black spots. ´Althaldensleber Park´ is a cultivar of Arum maculatum with very strong black marks.

´Spring Thing´ and ´Bakovci´ show yellow variegated leaves and are representatives of horticultural variegation. As at least ´Bakovci´passes this feature on to some of its seedlings, it seems unlikely that the variegation is caused by virus, which You regard as extremely likely.

The black spots of the botanical variegation are found in the last seedling I showed, which is definitely a seedling of ´Bakovci´. Which makes me believe, that this botanical variegation is inherited and not caused by virus. None of the many arums in my garden ever developed black spots which were not there in previous years.

[Vinny 123]

There is very little comment online about variegation being retained (or not) in seedlings from a variegated parent but the one that goes into details says that chimeras DO NOT produce variegated seedlings.

Maybe that is wrong, but the logic makes sense to me.

So that leaves genetic and virus as causes of the variegation. As the variegation is extremely variable, that would tend to favour virus.

I have to say that I had assumed that Arum "chameleon" was an A. m. cultivar, but it is not, it is an A. italicum cultivar. To all intents and purposes, that comes extremely uniform and profusely from seed, which suggests to me that it is genetic.

If "Bakovci" is a chimera, which seems unlikely, 50% of seed should not be viable. If the variegation is genetic, it should be similar when propagated via seed and seed viability should be high. If the variegation is due to virus, the variegation should be random and seed viability should be high.

Variation of the number (if any) and size of spotting on the leaves in wild, in the UK, of A. m., despite the meaning of the name, is enormous. Around here, spotting is probably rare, but I am familiar with only a small number of populations and it is a very, very common plant over much of the UK.

In common English usage, the spots would not be referred to as variegation, just as spots. In common English usage, variegation would tend to refer to pale or white markings. There is no precise meaning but talking of variegation in the UK would tend to bring a picture of a marbled and pale plant to most people's mind.

[Mariette]

Perhaps we should consider Arum maculatum ´Bakovci´ to be a mutation?

Arum maculatum grows wild in my region, which may be the reason why ´Bakovci´ thrives better here than in other places. Collecting hardy arums since many years, I´ve seen a good deal of variations in the leaves of Arum maculatum in Germany, Britain and the Netherlands growing wild. Plants with  green or spotted leaves often grow side by side.
In the garden, where different cultivars of arum are collected, the seedlings of a special cultivar vary, as they tend to be cross-pollinated. In gardens, where only one cultivar is grown, the seedlings will look more uniform.

´Chameleon´ was offered as Arum italicum in the past, but now is regarded as a hybrid, Arum italicum x maculatum. In my garden, some seedlings look similar to the parent, but many differ and wouldn´t go as´Chameleon´.

As Arum maculatum ´Bakovci´ produces some seedlings looking similar to it, some of the stuff offered may be not of the original clone.

[Vinny 123]

Mutation would imply genetic change.

This is absolutely possible, but based on very little evidence, it is not. The balance of evidence, nothing more than that, is that it is virus infection.

Chameleon has only ever come very, very close to type here from seed (actually, my original plant was a seedling, so not strictly Chameleon at all). It's a very nice plant, whatever it is. BUT, it was nowhere near any other arum, so could only have been self-fertilised. In a garden with other arums near and flowering at the same time......................

Bakovci not being the original clone will not be the first, by a very, very, very, very long way............. for sure   

[Robert]

Hi Mariette,

2024 has brought so many unexpected changes. Slowly everything is sorting out. The ornamental portion of our garden will take many months to redesign and reorganize. I am happy that I can resume posting on the Forum occasionally.

I have been retired from employment for a salary or conducting business for a number of years now. I never enjoyed either. As for farming, agriculture, and horticulture, clearly I will never retire from these pursuits. There is so much worthwhile and fascinating research that needs to be done in these fields of interest, especially here in the Central Valley of California. Atmospheric Science has also been a passion since I was 13 years old. I will continue with this until my last days too.

As I can I will post information about the evolution of our garden here in Sacramento. I hope this will be interesting and informative. Progress with Crocus will take time, but someday I hope to have something interesting to share in this regard. Thank you.