Lilium and allies (Cardiocrinum. Notholirion and Nomocharis) 2008

[Paul T]

I've never flowered thompsonianum either but mine are in small pots.  I know there was a discussion at one point on one of the lists somewhere that said they need space and depth, plus a good feed too (if I recall right).  Large pots if you're growing them in the pots, I would imagine to insulate them like so many bulbs are that split up when in too small a pot.  I just haven't got around to repotting mine into a larger pot, or I haven't been able to find the pot when I think about it! (This is a common problem in my yard unfortunately )

I noticed in passing the other day that I have seed down from David (I think) of N. bulbuliferum, so was rather pleased when I realised that.  I'd completely forgotten, but as soon as I saw the name on the pot I remembered the pic here.  Of course may not be as pink as that one, but should be lovely.  Was very chuffed to find that the other day as I was meandering through my shadehouse. 

[johnw]

Göte-Jim-Rob

I have selfed the reputed L. polyphyllum (?) so if you interested in seed please drop me a pm.

I will have to write to the Taylors this summer and include a picture.

johnw

[rob krejzl]

John,

Yes please! I've tried raising it from seed before - only one of the batch germinated & that seems to have died because of too much winter wet (see Paul, that's just one reason for my sudden interest in raised beds despite a garden which is almost pure sand).

[gote]

Jim,
I keep it in woodland conditions. It remains in the soil all year round and is not protected in any special way.
As far as I understand, thompsonianum grows wild in more exposed and drier places and is a more westerly species.
The biggest difficulty in my experience is that the first year seedling is only a thin small leaf and easily damaged.
Göte

[gote]

John,
Yes please you are very kind.
It will be very interesting to see what it looks like.
Unfortuately I guess it will be 2015 or thereabouts 
Göte

[gote]

Rob and John,
I did not mean to imply that it were L. xanthellum.

What I tried to express is that there is a group of lilies out there, roughly composed by the section sinomartagon, Comber minus the nepalense group and the brick reds (lancifolium etc).
This group contains Chinese woodlanders, higher than 30cm.  with pendant flowers and reflexed tepals. The colouring is delicate pink-white-yellow. Xanthellum belongs to this group as does lankongense/duchartreii, wardii talinense etc. In my belief this group is not thoroughly studied. there might be forms out there which are not yet described and there are intermediate forms like the one I posted above.
 
My impression is that the flower in the pictures looks more as a member of this group than like a member of the group consisting of the caucasians and true martagons which generally has a more robust appearance, stronger colours and grow more exposed and grows more to the west and north of China.

Having said this  I have to go back and say that probably I am wrong.  Eventually I found a picture of garden grown polophyllums in LYB 1954 plate 21. These show precisely the flower shape of John's picture.
The notes say that it is fairly difficult to grow needing very deep root run, disliking root disturbance and too wet winters (which lily does not?) It is also assumed to be very frost hardy.

I get the impression that the kinship to the caucasians has been exaggerated in literature and that the Elwes picture is somewhat misleading.

This has been very educating and I am even more eager to try to grow it.

Göte

     

[rob krejzl]

the Elwes picture is somewhat misleading.

It does seem to have overtones of art rather than straight botanical illustration; perhaps another case of gilding the lily.

[Maggi Young]

Dear Friends, I have heard from a contact, Dr. Markus Hohenegger, in Austria, who was researching into Lilium polyphyllum, and who wished to discuss with Margaret and Henry Taylor to find more about their experiences with this lily in the wild ..... he has now received photos from them of this lily and these can be seen on his website:
http://www.the-genus-lilium.com/polyphyllum.htm

Hope all this helps you with your identifications!

[gote]

It looks like the same picture.
We do have a nomenclature problem in that in old classifications all lilies with pendant flowers with reflexed tepals where called "martagons". Today we mean martagon, hansonii, distichum, medeloides and perhaps tsingtauense.
An old description may thus call L superbum a martagon mening nothing else than that the tepals are reflexed. MAybe this is what has conused me.
Göte

[Tony Willis]

This thread has stirred a memory from years ago in a semi senile brain and I popped out to look in a frame.

In Feb 2003 Henry and Margaret gave a talk to our AGS grop and in the lottery at the end I won a packet of their L. polyphyllum seeds. Although they have never flowered, as most years slugs eat of the top growth as it emerges, I have a small pot of bulbs. I shall make an effort next year to bring them on and get them to flower.

[Lesley Cox]

An incredibly beautiful species, judging from Henry Taylor's pictures, especially the second one with very red pollen, as distinct from orange/tan.

[Maggi Young]

It must have been very exciting indeed for the Taylors and their companions to see these lilies in large numbers in the wild.....as I belive was the case.

[johnw]

I missed the last few posts. Henry Taylor's pictures of L. polyphyllum show superb forms. I had thought someone might have been in bed with my polyphyllum but it looks pretty similar to Taylor's L. polyphyllum. There are 4 or 5 more still unflowered here so we might just get a very good one some day. No complaints though.

Meanwhile I photographed my L. henryi (or at least what I grow as henryi) tonight. They are blurry as the light was fading and a sudden breeze came up (why wouldn't it!). Can anyone confirm the identity? Seems I read something about the different leaf shape and size near the flower (see 2nd pic) as signifying another species but I can't recall where.

johnw

[rob krejzl]

John,

Hohenegger's site (http://www.the-genus-lilium.com/sec5asiatic.htm) summarises the consistent differences between henryi and rosthornii (leaf breadth & capsule length). Rosthornii tends to be shorter and very upright - only a very few henryi selections don't lean. Your plant looks like henryi; compare it with Holger Kühne's very good picture of rosthornii (2nd from left) on the Hohenegger site, which is very similar to rosthornii as I grow it (mine, like Göte's, is seed of Chen Yi origin).

[johnw]

Thanks Rob. I had been scouring the books but the information was on the website. great site.

johnw