Lilium and allies (Cardiocrinum. Notholirion and Nomocharis) 2008

[johnw]

I think that your Lilium polyphyllum may be wrongly named. It is one of the lilies that I have not grown but the literature says that it is closer to monadelphum and perhaps martagon than to the sinomartagon group.
Polyphyllum is described as having more trumpet shaped flowers that are only reflexed halfway down. Since it grows in north India and Afghanistan but not in China we have little help of Haw or Flora of China.

There is a picture of L. polyphyllum in Phillips & Rix (p. 195 in my book); one of the flowers shown is just opening - it is remarkably similar to the unreflexed picture posted earlier. Mature flowers do indeed seem to resemble monadelphum in their habit.

Rob - Thanks, I found it on page 194/5. The picture does not really fit the  McRae description of "bell shaped flowers with lower half of tepals strongly rolled under" but certainly does look like the one here just opening. However I see no spotting in the photo.

We had close to 50mm of rain yesterday, maybe an 25mm overnight and 40-80mm this afternoon with the approach of Cristobal. Forecast is for showers for the next week! Sure does beat the 14" we had one day in the 1970's but certainly enough.

johnw

[Susan Band]

I can't remember who asked if Lilium pallpilliferum produced runners and multiplied this way.
It does, mine are just about in flower and surrounding the main stalk about 10cm  away there are new stalks. The foliage is quite fine. I will post a pic when they are open.
Susan

[rob krejzl]

However I see no spotting in the photo.

Certainly not the same as the Elwes illustration (http://www.the-genus-lilium.com./images/Lilium/polyphyllum01.jpg), but if it isn't polyphyllum, what is it?

[gote]

I did Susan,
Thank you this means that mine are not unique.
Göte

[Jim McKenney]

When your C. cordatum flowers will you post a picture of it please Jim?

Here it is, Lesley.

I spoke too soon about deer: something, deer I'll bet, took the other inflorescence the other day.

There is only this one flower on the remaining scape.

As you can see, the flowers lack the radial symmetry typical of true lilies. In fact, when seen head-on, they seem to be compressed from top to bottom into two flaps. Viewing the flowers  from the side allows one to see the long slit between the three upper tepals and the three lower tepals; this slit runs a bit more than three-fourths of the length of the bloom.  I can't look at these without expecting them to quack or honk at me.

The flower is sweetly fragrant.

When this one bloomed in the past, the flowers did not open any more than what you see here. If they open more this time, I'll post another image.

[Lesley Cox]

Thanks Jim, quite different from what I expected. I hope mine grow to maturity.

[gote]

Jim,
Is there any bract to the pedicel or did that fall off when the flower opened?
Göte

[gote]

Rob,
I get the impression that the Chinese lilies are not yet sufficiently well known.
there are several that are fairly similar to each others and the photo.
I get the feeling of a typical sinomartagon when I see the pictures.
Talinese and xantellum come to my mind. There may still be new taxa out there to be found and also hybrids.
A big difficulty is that the species are usually described from collected samples and these are sometimes starved and when it comes in a garden situation they will be bigger and have more flowers maybe even larger flowers.
Example L. lopophorum posted by me above. The books say "One flower".
I am perhaps talking through my hat since I have not grown polophyllum or even seen it nor have seen the perhaps unknown one.
However, since polphyllum belongs to the more western group of monadelphum-martagon, It does not seem right.
The photo in Rix is also not very clear.  (And Rix is no more immune to errors than the rest of us)
Göte

   

[gote]

Since a copuple of years I grow Lilium lankongense sensu lato.
Like duchartreii the inflorescense is an umbel. like lankongense it is pinkish.
It is nicely intermediate and would support the notion that these are the same species.
I call it duchartreii because of the umbel and because I have grown more pinkish ones that undoubtedly were lankongense.
Göte

[gote]

A Chinese martagon? lily that seems fairly unusual is L distichum.
It is hardy and not difficult in semi shade/shade.
Fortunately this is a safe name.
It has
#1: One whorl of leaves halfway up.
#2: it has usually two flowers.
#3: the flowers are not radially symmetrical.
Göte

[Paul T]

Fascinating, Gote.

[Jim McKenney]

I think that the Notholirion is bulbuliferum (previously hyacinthinum) Those I have/had have been more bluish but the flower shape is the same. I find it beautiful and neglected.

Göte

Göte, to judge by your image, the Notholirion bulbiliferum seems to be growing in woodland. Do the bulbs remain in the ground all year? What happens to the foliage during the winter? Do you have protective snow cover?

Can you or anyone else give some pointers for growing Notholirion thomsonianum? I've had my plant since the summer of 2005, and although it seems to grow well, it has not bloomed yet.  I keep it in a cold frame, in a pot, and grow it relatively dry. It's dormant from late May until sometime in November when new foliage emerges.

[Jim McKenney]

Göte, to judge by your image, the Notholirion bulbiliferum

Please read that as Notholirion bulbuliferum.

[Jim McKenney]

Jim,
Is there any bract to the pedicel or did that fall off when the flower opened?
Göte

Göte, in the attached images you can see the bract. The second image shows the separation of the upper tepals and lower tepals well. This separation leaves the pollen well exposed.

[rob krejzl]

Göte,

re polyphyllum

This discussion reminds me of Gates' 1961 NALS article "Lilium polyphyllum? in the Himalayan Region"; suddenly the question mark assumes more significance.

John seemed fairly happy that the P&R photo was close to his plant (save for the lack of spots!). That photo doesn't seem to me to resemble any pictures of xanthellum that I've seen, since the petals only begin to reflex close to the tips - but it does resemble the Elwes illustration. It may be that the P&R plant is not the same entity as the Elwes one but without evidence of, say, reproductive isolation, perhaps one should be conservative and assume that they are?


Jim,

re thomsonianum

It is notoriously difficult to flower - I've had mine for longer than you without seeing a sign of a flowering stalk (but plenty of off-sets)whereas bulbuliferum flowers reliably (but doesn't off-set for me). I do remember a note from someone on the Yahoo lily list some years back who'd flowered thomsonianum - perhaps an archive search there would help?