Chipping/Twin-scaling type question

[RichardW]

I'm still using your method Brian, really not sure what happened last year but out of 400+ chips I've probably got less than 50 survived. I'm very careful to wash & scrub everything before starting and always use new blades for each bulb.

I assume it was the bag of vermiculite (which was sealed) because it's the only part of the process I have no real control over cleanliness. I'm sure the manufacturing & distribution process must lead to some potential for "bad lots", maybe just stored badly or too long?

Not sure how practical baking in the oven will be, it will slow the process down but better than losing so much. Have some other ideas but I'm reluctant to stray from a method that only a few years ago was giving me such good results.

[snowdropcollector]

Thank you Maggi, it is clear to me now  .
Richard, you are right that Perlite is dusty. But I still like to use it, for planting my bulbs, mixed with a little soil. Until now I do not have
any problems. Of course this can be different with your chippings in it. As said before, no experience with that.

[Brian Ellis]

I assume it was the bag of vermiculite (which was sealed) because it's the only part of the process I have no real control over cleanliness. I'm sure the manufacturing & distribution process must lead to some potential for "bad lots", maybe just stored badly or too long?

I agree that this is probably the weakest link, not quite sure what would be the best approach to sterilising it.  Sorry.

[chasw]

Going to heat mine through in the oven ................................................

[RichardW]

Vermiculite + microwave doesn't seem like a good combination, turning my kitchen into a lab is one thing, blowing it up.... 

Will try baking & a few other things, I have old stacking vegetable steamer which might be another method. Would be interesting to hear from those who don't use fungicides.

[Maggi Young]

Ian doesn't use any fungicides unless he sees some problem beginning, when he will add some sulphur powder.

As I said, Ian doesn't use fungicides when chipping  - he has pretty good results -  not that he does a great deal of chipping. I think he believes, as I do, that you get stronger plants from "natural" propagation.
 I often wonder if half the problems  ( maybe more!) of these new 'drops which seem so miffy and prone to disappearing do not come from their origin as chips.

[Paddy Tobin]

I think the same as you, Maggi

[Alan_b]

... I often wonder if half the problems  ( maybe more!) of these new 'drops which seem so miffy and prone to disappearing do not come from their origin as chips.

I don't see the act of chipping as weakening the bulb but rather artificially strengthening it for a limited period; a sort of 'intensive care'.  But when the chipped bulbs are 'let out of hospital' are they really well enough to survive the rigours of the world outside?  That's when the losses occur. 

[RichardW]

I'm sure some new drops have been "mass produced" before they've had a chance to establish as good doers, won't name names...

I guess with natural vs chipping there's a balance, I can, and have turned 40 ish Mighty Atom into 350+ flowering bulbs within 3 years which I doubt is achieveable without chopping things up. That allowed me to plant a large area quickly and sell the excess

I would also say having then dug up the bulbs the chipped bulbs that were planted were noticably better clumps than those which had been planted by division a year or so earlier.

[Alan_b]

When you're in 'intensive care' you are neither expected nor able to go out to work.  Thus it is with chipped bulbs, which are not require nor able to do their normal job of producing flowers each year.  I imagine that if you were to take full-sized bulbs and could treat them with some 'hormone' that would suppress flower formation then you might achieve the same rate of increase as you can with a chipped bulb.

[Hans J]

Vermiculite + microwave doesn't seem like a good combination, turning my kitchen into a lab is one thing, blowing it up.... 

Will try baking & a few other things, I have old stacking vegetable steamer which might be another method. Would be interesting to hear from those who don't use fungicides.

I have just found this topic ...here some words from me :
With twinscaling of Galanthus I have no expierience ...but a lot with sowing cactus
They need also very clean ( near steril ) growing situations ...I have grown many hundrets of Cacti from seed until flowering
From friends I know they use Vermiculte for twin scaling ...because it is easy for sterilizing
Fill a big jar with Vermicultite  and put it in your oven by a temperatur of 160° for 120 minutes ( you could add a little water )
Thats the big advantage for Vermiculite ...Perlite is not so well for sterilizing
My Cacti are most sown with the so called "Fleischer" method ...the sowing medium comes in a jar and shall be sterilized in the oven ...after cool down the seeds will be sowing and the cover will closed ...after some weeks  without opening when the seedlings are big enough to transplate
In the times now I sow in single pots and put these in plastic bags ...after this they also closed for some weeks ....when the seedlings are big enough I open the bags carefull ( more and more each day )after some days they can removed and the seedlings grow in more less natural conditions
It is in my eyes impossible to grow cacti from seeds not in very clean conditions ...you will get fungus so quick !

Hans

[Alan_b]

Presumably if you were being really professional about this you would use a sterile air supply as well as keeping everything else sterile.  I wonder how Thompson and Morgan are progressing with their 'Elizabeth Harrison' bulb?

[RichardW]

As I said, Ian doesn't use fungicides when chipping  - he has pretty good results -  not that he does a great deal of chipping. I think he believes, as I do, that you get stronger plants from "natural" propagation.
 I often wonder if half the problems  ( maybe more!) of these new 'drops which seem so miffy and prone to disappearing do not come from their origin as chips.

Sorry missed that earlier, does Ian sterilise whatever mix he uses?

Hans, thank you. Think I will try several methods this year, I would really like to be more confident and chip more but years like the last one just put me off chopping up precious things.

[Maggi Young]

Sorry missed that earlier, does Ian sterilise whatever mix he uses?

No. He has used, at various times ,  perlite, vermiculite, sand and moss.  He likes to use moss ( he doesn't have to buy it!)

[Brian Ellis]

It has been suggested that the problem could lie with the storage of the vermiculite or even fungal infections in the air.  It would seem that some vermiculite is sold in bags which have holes in them which permit airborne infection, whilst others are in resealable bags which ensures the least possibility of infection.  This can be minimized by moistening the freshly opened vermiculite and then putting in the resealable bag/box that you intend to put the chips in, only opening it once the chips are out of the fungicide to put them in.  Once you have done this if any vermiculite remains use it for something else and buy a new bag - after all it is a lot cheaper than a snowdrop!  Again opening the bags as the pips develop allows for the introduction of any airborne disease so this should be avoided if at all possible.  I have only ever used brand new bags and always throw them away or use them for something else.