Crocus in both hemispheres August 2008

[Paul T]

So, like the imperatii ssp imperatii has 2 bracteoles and the ssp suavoleons only has one?  Is that what we're talking about?  So how do I tell whether mine does or doesn't?  I'm assuming the sheath the flower emerges from is not the bracteole?

[Thomas Huber]

So, like the imperatii ssp imperatii has 2 bracteoles and the ssp suavoleons only has one?  Is that what we're talking about?  So how do I tell whether mine does or doesn't?  I'm assuming the sheath the flower emerges from is not the bracteole?

Exactly like the imperati discussion we had weeks ago.
If a plant has just ONE sheeting leave it's the bract
if it has TWO it's bract and bracteole!

[Paul T]

Got it.  That was what I had in mind, but wanted to confirm.  Will check tomorrow, as it is currently 11:20pm here so a tad dark and somewhat cold outside right at the moment.

So if they're that closely related, why are they separate species rather than subspecies of something?  Or was veluchensis at one point C. vernus ssp veluchensis?  And will my vernus ssp vernus (if it turns out to be that) hybridise with the cvijicii?  The vernus weren't mentioned as one to try when it came to hybridising.

[tonyg]

While they are closely related they are not as close as to warrent merging.  In fact Brian Mathew did merge a lot of different things into C vernus when he wrote his monograph but he considered C veluchensis to be quite seperate.  Some people still mourn the merger of nearly 30 years ago ... we don't want any more controversy

[Paul T]

That's not a problem Tony.  I was just asking because the means of differentiation of the two species were rather limited to say the least.  I understand quite well the whole lumping and splitting debate.  I still had to ask though.  Only way to learn!! 

[tonyg]

Paul - of you had a dozen different vernus forms and a dozen veluchensis all in flower at one time I think you would quickly learn to tell them apart.  Shape and dimensions of these variable flowers is a hard thing to record on paper.

[Paul T]

Fair enough.  Sorry to have questioned.

[Lesley Cox]

The picture I posted above of Crocus veluchensis is an absolute dud - quite ashamed of it in fact, so badly blurred. I very recently discovered a "sharpen" function in my Photofiltre programme, and I have used it here to show what a difference it can make. It can't make a rotten picture into a good one, but it does help. This pic was taken at the same time as the other and was equally poor.

[Lesley Cox]

Looks as if I'll need to go through just about all my pics and sharpen them up.

[Thomas Huber]

Hi Thomas
I'm afraid the photos are too big in size, I'm trying to send them again separately.
first C. moabiticus
oron

Here are the photos of the new white Crocus, Oron has found on his trip to Amman/Syria.
I wanted to show them Dr. Kerndorff first, but he's on holiday now. Will do this later!

[David Nicholson]

Delightful little Crocus.

[Maggi Young]

Two of us here in Aberdeen liking that crocus, as well!  Love the spotty tube...

[Oron Peri]

Thomas

Thank you for uploading the pics

I wanted to add the two other forms of C. aleppicus from this region, the first is the common form from the Golan Heights and Mt. Hermon [probably the same as in Syria and Lebanon]
The second pic is C. aleppicus from the coast of Israel, this is a tiny colorfull form that resemble by its slender form C. veneris from not far Cyprus.

If you comper, you can notice that the form I found in Jordan is different, also by its elongated form of the corm... and it has a powerfull smell of Hyacinthus orientalis.

[Oron Peri]

the second form from the coast line

[Maggi Young]

How lovely! I like the idea of a crocus with such a good scent, too 
You are so fortunate to see these plants in the wild, Oron!