Dahlia sp.

[johnw]

I wonder if anyone knows which species this is? It was collected in the mountains of Mexico by a friend who I have had trouble contacting. The plant grows to about 2.5 ft high. The flowers are almost black and small. Visitors always mistakenly admire it as the chocolate cosmos.  It started to open last night and already the earwigs have been chomping on the petals. The fragrance is of intense chocolate, I wonder which pollinator is lured by this?  Maggi excluded.

johnw 

[Lesley Cox]

No idea John, but interesting that it has the same or similar scent. A chocolate Dahlia? Send it to Maggi. The leaves of the cosmos are thinner and finer, (different anyway) and edged with reddish green. Wonder how hardy this one is?

[Brian Ellis]

Like Lesley I have no idea John, but it looks very similar to Dahlia 'Dark Desire' so I wonder if it is one of its parents, unfortunately if it is it didn't pass on the scent!

[johnw]

I have no idea how hardy it is but I can tell you it is not the easiest to get through the winter in dry storage. I have almost lost it completely on several occasions, my friend lost it but I was able to replace it. I cannot imagine it wintering in the ground with any dampness.

I would love to get it to interested parties for safety's sake. I will try to make seed but this is fairly late to expect it to ripen before frost.

If I sent to Maggi I would first register it as D. 'Chocolate Carousel'.

johnw

[Paul T]

John,

Certainly looks like a Dahlia, particularly the bud picture that you showed.  I too would be another interested in growing it, and the chocolate scent would be a real bonus.  LOVE black flowers!!!!!  I find the species dahlias rather appealing.... so much more delicate than the bigger hybrid types, although they most certainly have their place in the summer garden, that is for sure.  Good luck with setting seed on it, as it would be well worthwhile getting it off to someone to make sure that there is backup somewhere outside of your garden for safety sake.

[Ian Y]

John, just send Maggi the actual chocolate! 

[Paul T]

Ian,

I don't know.... if she gets too much chocolate her feet might end up as big as in that portrait she posted.  We wouldn't want that, now would we. 

[johnw]

John,

Certainly looks like a Dahlia, particularly the bud picture that you showed.  I too would be another interested in growing it, and the chocolate scent would be a real bonus.  LOVE black flowers!!!!!  I find the species dahlias rather appealing.... so much more delicate than the bigger hybrid types, although they most certainly have their place in the summer garden, that is for sure.  Good luck with setting seed on it, as it would be well worthwhile getting it off to someone to make sure that there is backup somewhere outside of your garden for safety sake.

Paul - I'll send you some seed if it sets.  I suppose a sliver of tuber in the mail is not possible???

johnw

[Maggi Young]

Ian,

I don't know.... if she gets too much chocolate her feet might end up as big as in that portrait she posted.  We wouldn't want that, now would we. 

I read all this stuff, y'know!!

[Paul T]

Egads Maggi, I'd never thought of that!! 

[fermi de Sousa]

Paul - I'll send you some seed if it sets.  I suppose a sliver of tuber in the mail is not possible???
johnw

Hi John,
A sliver of tuber would be verboten! But the seed would also have to have a "species" name attached! These are currently allowed into Australia:
Dahlia coccinea;D. coccinea x pinnata;D. dissecta;D. excelsa;D. gracilis;D. imperialis;D.
 maximiliana;D. maxonii;D. merckii;D. pinnata;D. popenovii;D. sherffii;D. sherriffi;D. tenuicaulis;D. variabilis;D. x cultorum.
cheers
fermi (I'll wait till Paul has a spare tuber from the seed you'll send him!)
 

[Paul T]

John,

No, seed only in the mail, no tubers.  Thank you for the offer on both counts, but only seed if it is successful in setting.  Otherwise, there are always other years.    Just make sure for your sake that you send a tuber if you have one spare to someone who can act as your backup in case you do lose yours one dormancy.  Nothing worse than losing something you can't replace.

[Paul T]

Fermi,

Well, there's a lot on that list I've never seen or heard of.

[Afloden]

John,
 
 I have poured over many papers, old and new, on Dahlia classification and can find nothing that describes what I see in the pictures. Of course, no mention is made of scent. Mostly because it is variable by plant and detector. I found a few with dark purple flowers in the description, but to call those dark purple would be a leap. I see brown-maroon, chocolate, or whatever color you may wish to call, maybe dark purple was what they thought they saw when it was described from a long dead plant pressed flat and faded.

 It is a Dahlia. The leaves are correct and so is the flower structure. Then again, the Asteraceae is prone to extreme splitting and lumping.

 If you fear losing it try propagation from leaf cuttings. Now is the recommended time.  Two papers mention leaf cuttings, either the terminal leaflet where it separates from the other two or from the stem/petiole junction (the stem does not need to be damaged), placing them in sand and rooting like you would anything else. No mention was made of hormones. Roots should begin to form and them, hopefully by fall small tubers. If not and you have the ability to keep them growing over the winter they will eventually form tubers. One paper only used D. variabilis (?) and the other made no mention of a particular species, which I assume means they used hybrids. Either way it is worth a try. If that fails I'll be doing a class next year on in-vitro propagation where I could try it.

 If they do root, but make no tubers, I have access to the U of TN greenhouse where I work if you want and are willing to send some my way for preservation and so I can smell the flowers!

 I'll keep looking. There are some recent paper that I have not found yet online or in the Herbarium library.

 All the best,
 
 Aaron Floden
 
 the Allium, if I never replied, does look like A. prattii.

 

[johnw]

Aaron - Thanks for all this.  I really don't have suitable conditions to keep it going through the winter with rooting in mind. I do have 3-4 backups here and have sent it to friends out west who have been dividing it and sharing. Sean Hogan at Cistus Nursery collected it. Three years ago I was able to get a piece back to him as he lost it.  If it makes seed I can send you some too. Tubers always here if you happen into Canada.

Send me a pm with your address as I am going to NYC in 2 weeks and something might transpire.

johnw