Sowing Paris - any advice ?

[Robin Callens]

Here are the images of a paris species growing now in my garden. Could you help to identify it (the undersurface of the leaves is purple)

Roberto,

Your Paris is probably a P. cronquistii. This species stays green in mild winters. My experience with seed of P. cronquistii is that it germinates very poorly.

Robin

[Regelian]

Man-o,

another fabulous genus for my shade garden.  Very beautiful pictures.  The P. vietnamensis is lovely.  Pity it is sub-tropical.  Probably prudent to start with an easy species.  Hmmm.

[ian mcenery]

I have had this Paris bought as P Mairei five years ago. For the first 3 years it grew but did not vary in size much. On the third year it died back early at the end of August when previously it had stayed in leaf until November. Since this time it has not shown above ground. I have removed the top soil carefully and found what I think is the rhizome which has some small whitish nodules showing but no strong buds. Does anyone have any experience of such behavious and is there any hope??

Should I move it??

Here is a picture of it when it was in good health

[Paul T]

Ian,

Do the nodules look like the new shoots I showed in the topic I did on 'Butchering Paris"?  When I cut a few disks off the back of a Paris rhizome the first things that appeared around the edges of the disk were small white lumps, which eventually started to produce tiny rhizomes, and now they have produced roots and I assume this coming spring will produce growth above ground.  If you rhizome is developing a bunch of white nodules it sounds like the main shoot may have been damaged and now the axillary buds on the rhizome are activating.  If so, you won't get flowers for a while, but you should end up with a new rhizome from each or those nodules.  That is what it sounds to me like may have happened.  Did you happen to photograph the rhizome with it's nodules when you unearthed it?  I know exactly what mine looked like so I can try to help identify whether yours are the same or not?

[Carlo]

Ian,
It certainly is spectacular...best of luck with it.

If the nodules are incipient growth points, I'd consider Paul's propagation technique and cut it into pieces. At this stage you've got little to lose, and you can try establishing the plant in a number of different areas.

[Paul T]

Carlo,

Would you disturb it even when it was producing them fine by itself?  I would have thought that leaving it where it is and then moving rhizomes later on once they have developed a decent rhizome would have been safer?  I was very concerned about the pieces rotting (which thankfully didn't happen).  If Ian's are producing offsets anyway I myself would leave them there and monitor them, but I wouldn't want to cut the rhizome up and take the chance of introducing fungal spores etc into the rhizome?  I think once they have taken all they can from the old rhizome they will effectively be all separate plants then anyway, so I'd leave it until then.

[Carlo]

Hi Paul,

I'll let Ian speak for himself, but he appeared to indicate that the rhizome was just sitting there with its nodules not differentiating into shoots. If that's the case, it may be that further injury to the mother rhizome will initiate some action on the part of these latent growth points. I'd be careful to sulphur any cut surfaces and make sure they're dry before replanting.

[ian mcenery]

Ian,

Do the nodules look like the new shoots I showed in the topic I did on 'Butchering Paris"?  When I cut a few disks off the back of a Paris rhizome the first things that appeared around the edges of the disk were small white lumps, which eventually started to produce tiny rhizomes, and now they have produced roots and I assume this coming spring will produce growth above ground.  If you rhizome is developing a bunch of white nodules it sounds like the main shoot may have been damaged and now the axillary buds on the rhizome are activating.  If so, you won't get flowers for a while, but you should end up with a new rhizome from each or those nodules.  That is what it sounds to me like may have happened.  Did you happen to photograph the rhizome with it's nodules when you unearthed it?  I know exactly what mine looked like so I can try to help identify whether yours are the same or not?

Hi Paul thanks for that.  I have this afternoon done a little excavation. One day I will finish the bxxxxy thing off for good doing this - a case of finger blight  - and  I found something similar to what you show on the Butchering Paris thread  with 2 buds showing even larger than those of yours - so maybe next year. I think I might move it but only when it has established itself as its current location may not be suitable. Its disappearance coincides with me taking down a flowering sized Magnolia mollicomata campbellii (a crime I know) and old roots may be the problem.

http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3389.msg87033#msg87033

[Paul T]

Carlo,

They take ages to differentiate into shoots.  Mine had the nodules for months and months, never showing anything other than getting slightly larger.  Now they've started to produce roots, still not showing any signs of "shooting".  From that I am assuming it is just a matter of timing until Ian's do start to activate themselves.  I think the nodules just sit there and keep absorbing nutrients from the old rhizome until they get to the right time of year/size/whatever starts them doing more. 

[Carlo]

Fascinating things, aren't they.... Let's all be happy that the plant is still alive. Plenty of us have stories about plants that we'd thought we'd lost only to have them come up after a rest of a year or two...

[ian mcenery]

Carlo,

They take ages to differentiate into shoots.  Mine had the nodules for months and months, never showing anything other than getting slightly larger.  Now they've started to produce roots, still not showing any signs of "shooting".  From that I am assuming it is just a matter of timing until Ian's do start to activate themselves.  I think the nodules just sit there and keep absorbing nutrients from the old rhizome until they get to the right time of year/size/whatever starts them doing more. 

Fascinating things, aren't they.... Let's all be happy that the plant is still alive. Plenty of us have stories about plants that we'd thought we'd lost only to have them come up after a rest of a year or two...

Only time will tell 

I have a number of Paris which do not seem particularly happy with me. Can  anyone offer advice about soil type and moisture levels etc. I have acid soil about PH 6.5 and the plants are in various parts of the garden mostly part or even  full shade. Am I doing something wrong?

[Robin Callens]

Ian,

It sounds like you have the right conditions for growing Paris. Some species are a bit of challenge to grow well in the garden. Which Paris species do you have? And also, are your plants grown from seed or imported? I experienced that Paris plants we grew from seed do better in the garden than the ones we bought.

Robin

[ian mcenery]

Ian,

It sounds like you have the right conditions for growing Paris. Some species are a bit of challenge to grow well in the garden. Which Paris species do you have? And also, are your plants grown from seed or imported? I experienced that Paris plants we grew from seed do better in the garden than the ones we bought.

Robin

Hi Robin

I would have liked to try and raise from seed but this seems difficult to come by so my plants have been bought from UK nurseries as plants.  However knowing the growers  I don't think any of them will have been from directly imported plants.

I have

Paris Japonica in very shady spot
Paris polyphylla
Paris incompleta
and if it is still alive I have Paris Mairei also in a very shady spot

Non of them are doing particularly well just more or less staying as bought.

[Tony Willis]

I have had this Paris bought as P Mairei five years ago. For the first 3 years it grew but did not vary in size much. On the third year it died back early at the end of August when previously it had stayed in leaf until November. Since this time it has not shown above ground. I have removed the top soil carefully and found what I think is the rhizome which has some small whitish nodules showing but no strong buds. Does anyone have any experience of such behavious and is there any hope??

Ian I bought Paris liquangensis? from China in November 04. It has today produced its first shoot above ground.

It was a piece of rootless rhizome about as thick as a pencil and about 3 inches long when it arrived. I have inspected it regularly and it has rotted back along the rhizome towards the growing point slowly but the front bit remained firm. I may get it to flowering size in a few or many years.

[Tony Willis]

An update on my Paris luquanensis which appeared a few weeks ago after several years underground.

Last night a slug ate it. It left no indication as to whether it had enjoyed this exotic meal other than it left nothing visible above ground so it must have had a  satisfactory flavour. Hopefully not another five years before it reappears.