Crocus October 2008

[Armin]

Hagen,
your "unknown" is a beauti, I have not yet seen.

David,
I think Thomas is closest with his hybrid explanation.

Gerry,
your C. tournefortii x boryi is lovely. I like the strong influence, yellow center of C.boryi.

Zhirair,
thanks. I've sent you a PM.

[Gerry Webster]

Tony - are those yellow blobs in your last pic the anthers or marks in the throat? Or are the anthers missing, transformed into extra petals. The provenance suggests either C. pulchellus or  C. cancellatus mazziaricus. The shape of the stigma may point to the latter.
(Be glad you are not involved with  Iceland. It's not just the cod which is frozen & battered).

Mark - C. kotschyanus is Turkish

[Tony Willis]

Gerry

I think you are right although I cannot examine the corm. The yellow is in the throat of the flower and the anthers are white. Good id as I think they are edible!

[Gerry Webster]

Tony - I'm told the Turkish ones are used in pilaff. Presumably the Greek ones could be treated similarly. Useful to know these days.

[HClase]

Somewhere I read that Greek shepherds toast crocus (cancellatus?) corms like chestnuts - we tried some once but they didn't taste of anything!

You are all way ahead of us, only nudiflorus in full flower and a few kotschyanus outside so far.  (We collect the styles of nudiflorus to use as saffron, which is supposed to be why the mediaeval herbalists grew them.  Generally get enough for a couple of saffron buns!) 

Here's the first flower in my frame, C. banaticus from Janis Ruksans.

[David Nicholson]

.................
David, I think your plant is of hybrid origin - perhaps cartwrightianus and hadriaticus.
Hadriaticus has a shiny yellow throat, while cartwrightianus hasn't (and also thomasii!)
your plant has a soft yellow intermediate throat.
The whitish/creamy anthers possibly mean, that the plant is infertile, which often
happens with hybrids. I have a plant with similar features, bought as hadriaticus,
but also showing cartwrightianus signs.

Thanks Thomas. I had another look at the plant today but a bumblebee had decimated it. The anthers though were yellow, would this change your view at all??

Nice one Howard.

[Martin Baxendale]

Here is a crocus from Northern Greece which has ten petals. I did think it was pulchellus but I am confused by the anthers.

Looks and sounds like pulchellus to me, Tony.

[Gerry Webster]

We collect the styles of nudiflorus to use as saffron, which is supposed to be why the mediaeval herbalists grew them.  Generally get enough for a couple of saffron buns! 

Howard - Saffron was cultivated in the UK in the past (e.g., Saffron Walden). Since C. sativus does not flower reliably in the UK it has been suggested that this was in fact derived from C. nudiflorus. I wonder if the current practice in Newfoundland dates from that of the original British colonists?

[Martin Baxendale]

We collect the styles of nudiflorus to use as saffron, which is supposed to be why the mediaeval herbalists grew them.

Didn't know you could use nudiflorus for saffron! I must get out and collect some. I've got carpets of nudiflorus flowering just now, so should be able to gather enough for quite a few nice fishy dishes. 

[HClase]

Gerry and Martin,

I think I am the first person to grow C. nudiflorus in Newfoundland - it's not a traditional plant.  My stock originated in two corms at 75p each from Broadleigh Gardens in 1978.  It's the autumn flowering crocus that does best here, and has increased enormously, I must have well over 100 flowers around the garden at present, and it has been passed on to other gardeners in the area.  I think our cool damp climate suits it.

My own background is that I came here from the UK in 1968 from an old Devon family of pastry cooks and confectioners, although my own home was Salisbury.   Some time in the 1950's a couple of papers were published, one of which pointed out that the locations where it is naturalised in the UK correspond to places where the Knights of St John had their physic gardens and it seems to have hung on from those days in "Lammas fields" which were grazed in winter and summer, but not during spring and autumn when the plants are above ground.   The one place I am familiar with is the Warwick racecourse, where they grow in the parking area and on the track itself - or did in the 1990's.  (My visits were just to the crocuses, not to the horses!) This used to be a Lammas field.  The other paper showed via paper chromatography that the chemicals in the styles were similar to those in C. sativus, which, as you say used to be grown in Saffron Walden, and it was surmised that the Knights grew it for saffron as it's easier to grow than the true saffron crocus.  They need lots of manure apparently, and I've never managed to grow them here for long even in pots.

That said, the styles are much smaller, and while they give a yellow colour they don't have the characteristic saffron smell and taste.  Still  it's something else locally grown!  Here endeth the lesson.

[olegKon]

First autumn crocuses here to brighten the season
1. Usual C.kotchianus clump
2.3. Another kotchianus? Any ideas? It is almost white with blue veining. I received it as cartwrightianus which is certainly not
4. C. speciosus - a real giant appr. 20 cm tall
5. C. speciosus - a much smaller plant with the flower 3 times as small as the previous
6.7. C.pulchellus
I would be glad to have any corrections if anything is wrong with naming

[Martin Baxendale]

2.3. Another kotchianus? Any ideas? It is almost white with blue veining. I received it as cartwrightianus which is certainly not

The throat markings are blurry and not easy to see clearly in the second pic but do look like kotschyanus, and the flower shape looks right for kotschyanus too.

[tonyg]

Yes it does look like C kotschyanus which can be very pale, almost white.

[Thomas Huber]

Thanks Thomas. I had another look at the plant today but a bumblebee had decimated it. The anthers though were yellow, would this change your view at all??

No David - it still has a soft yellow throat - intermediate between hadriaticus and cartwrightianus.
This feature is in my opinion more important than the anther colour.

Tony W. I also think your crocus is C. pulchellus!

Nice collection Oleg. Tony G already pointed out that kotschyanus is a very variable plant,
so your pale crocus is also kotschyanus.

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Nice collection Oleg !

My C. speciosus Oxonion still is'nt showing in the garden.  Should I start worrying ?? 

Howard,
Love your history lecture ! Very interesting and informative !
Thanks !