Crocus October 2008

[Martin Baxendale]

Thomas - it ought to be possible to find out something about the origin of trade C. medius by looking at old bulb catalogues. I would guess that there must be collections of these in Holland.

If the trade plant is a hybrid & C. longiflorus  is a parent it's not clear how it could have originated since the two species are widely separated geographically. In cultivation?

In a short account of a trip to Liguria  to look at C. medius (AGS Bull. vol 69, Sept 2001)  Alan Edwards notes that flowers become significantly smaller at the western end of its range, along the Franco-Italian border.  He speculates that this may be the source of the trade form, the early collectors preferring to work "close to the Riviera fleshpots".

I also think it's worth considering the possibility that the trade medius might be a strong-growing and fast-increasing sterile triploid clone which was selected out either in the field by a collector or in the nursery beds in Holland.

[Tony Willis]

Gerry beautiful cartwrightianus,did you see my plant with doubling of the petals a couple of days ago?

[art600]

More Crocus
1 Outside of 9 from previous post
2 Crocus kotschyanus?
3 Crocus pulchellus?
4 & 5 Could you please identify

9, and also 2 and 3 in your second post are all pulchellus - no kotschyanus there. 4 &5 appears to have leaves up with the flowers and seems (accordiing to BM) to key out as serotinus. But I may be making a mistake in using his key - e.g. not sure from your photo if the throat is very pale yellow or not, and assuming those out of focus green bits are leaves, also the style...Tony? Thomas? Help!

100% agreement.  I have forms of serotinus which closely resemble the plant 4&5 (ssp salzmannii) which can flower with or without the leaves, the southern forms perhaps bsing more likely to flower leafless or almost so.

It was not a trick question, as I have pots with Crocus that bear no relationship to the label, but 4 & 5 are labelled Crocus serotinus salzmanii - bought at the Bulb sale.

Thanks Martin & Tony for confirmation.

[Gerry Webster]

I also think it's worth considering the possibility that the trade medius might be a strong-growing and fast-increasing sterile triploid clone which was selected out either in the field by a collector or in the nursery beds in Holland.

An interesting suggestion Martin, & one which would not be too difficult to investigate - the chromosome number for wild C. medius is known. It could even be done by an enterprising 6th form or undergraduate biology student. On second thoughts though, I don't suppose departures from the syllabus are encouraged in schools these days - not good for the league tables.

The nature/identity of this plant has bugged me for years. I do wish someone could sort  it out.

[Gerry Webster]

Gerry beautiful cartwrightianus,did you see my plant with doubling of the petals a couple of days ago?

Thanks Tony. Yes, I saw your double & probably misidentified it!

[Tony Willis]

some in flower today

[Gerry Webster]

Very nice Tony. C.pallasii dispathaceus is a striking plant & one I've never seen in the flesh. Did you collect it?

[Tony Willis]

Gerry

 it came from between Silifke and Goksun in S Turkey in 2001. I do not think it is common there.

[Oron Peri]

Finally...
the first Crocus for this season: cancellatus damascenus, Ex Negev Desert.

[Oron Peri]

I'm adding also a photo of this ssp. in its natural habitat; mountains above 900m in the Negev desert.
it is the first species to bloom in the region, usually before the rain, leaves [2-5] are flat and thick.
It was proposed here by some botanists to upgrad this ssp. to a species level, due to the different characteristics; corm, leaves and the unproportional anthers.

[art600]

Oron

Always good to see the Crocus growing in natural conditions.  The anthers are amazing and the leaves look more like an Ornithogalum.

[Gerry Webster]

Oron - it's interesting to see the apparently inhospitable conditions in which this crocus grows. Many thanks.

[art600]

A couple more Crocus that have sprung to life over the last two days.  I have found it impossible to capture the true colour - both are deeper than shown and bluer.

The first was bought as serotinus clusii - I would like confirmation.  The second Crocus is unknown to me - could someone please identify.

1 & 2  serotinus clusii?
3,4 & 5 - unknown to me

[Anthony Darby]

Has anyone noticed that both Martin and Oron look as if they have been on secret missions to deliver Cadbury's Milktray - perhaps to a certain young lady up north (there's always a clue)?

[Gerry Webster]

Art - as someone who has expressed scepticism about identifying plants from photos I should no doubt keep quiet, but since I also believe it is not a crime to make mistakes,  here goes. No 3 C. longiflorus. No 4, if the stigma is red, also C. longiflorus. If I am right, both should be scented.