Ericaceae

[Maggi Young]

Maggi finds fog spooky!

That's because fog IS spooky!

Maggi - Mysterious maybe but not spooky. You've been reading too much Sherlock Holmes.

johnw

 Got it in one, John .... I ADORE  "whodunnits" and crime thrillers 

[Maggi Young]

By the way, in my book...mysterious IS spooky!

[johnw]

Stuart  - You could easily convert one of your frames for winter seedlings.  All you would need is a sheet of 3/4" plywood on top then white plastic. This way the snowload issue would be solved. As you can see I won't give up! You will be shocked at the survival rate.

Our constant mists and fog certainly help the rhodos through dry summer stretches. See photo!

I was happy to see your comment on the role of nearby maple roots. Here we are on shallow mineral soil and people grow norway maples and let Scot's elm seed about. Both have vigorous root systems and they wonder why their gardens don't perform, heap the compost to them and guess who gets the benefit.

Michel André Otis from the Montreal Botanic Garden gave a lecture here several years ago on creating a woodland garden. He spent much time on how greedy tree roots can defeat your attempts (and he had good deep soil). It was a mighty impressive talk and perhaps the only one I've heard that dealt with real problems. We must get him back again.

Maggi is dead on - weakened plants are the most likely ones to be winter damaged and especially ones with root damage or a shakey root system.  

johnw   - +8c & sunny

[johnw]

By the way, in my book...mysterious IS spooky! (Attachment Link)

Okay, we're an eerie lot but remember who settled and named the province!

johnw

[nicheplanthead]

John,

  I agree that a cover will lower the hardiness zone temperatures.. probably to +10C temperature difference..
The result will be that marginally hardy small seedlings will survive, but still only if tilted otherwise water will still accumulate during meltdown periods.
What happened during the ice storm was that all the covered frames froze solid and I had to use an axe to cut the ice off in the spring as I want to get my plants out as soon as possible.. I just read information confirming this in my local rhodo bulletin the sooner out of the frame the better.  this area stays frozen later than other areas so I would be damaging an already rotting frame top... it's an idea I might try..
but the plants I already have are a few years old and not undeveloped seedlings or rare things I would like to keep and try when larger..

I know Michel Andre Otis I understand that he is now retired from working at the montreal botanic gardens.
He visited me here. he recommended I do a dry garden area as roots are a losing battle.  I have developed a pseudo-woodland as you can't fight the large maples and I can't really grow anything beyond spring plants in the area nearest the fence. Its a birch forest, yes I know more shallow roots but it works.  Further out 15 feet or more I have tried a rhodo area.. I even have my own maple shading the area to make matters worse,(it shades the patio so I can sit there-not often tho) its mid-late afternoon sun.. PJM compacta in a shady part flowers quite well.. the others rather sporadic. 

Maggi
Newer plants in the garden usually don't even get a chance to make it to the fall if watering of the ones not yet established less than a year are neglected for too long with watering during the dry spell. the others suffer on and survive the winter remarkably well, alto the growth rates are painfully slow. It was mostly the ones in a big pot without good drainage that I fixed by reworking the soil mix.
I put 4-5 smaller plants in one large 20" pot that is quite deep on the back patio so I can watch over them and as the large mass of ideal soil will not dry up as fast as garden planted or potted plants they seem to do well. Some of these containers have a self watering catch at the bottom that has to be emptied when it rains. Now when they get too big for the 20" pot they go into 6-8"pots and plunged into the ground near the veggie patch so they can get water with the blueberries..or in the garden.
  So I juice them up a bit with liquid feed fertilizer in springtime..

Do you know if the book Hardy rhododenron species by james cullen has temperate ratings?

[nicheplanthead]

You all make me envious of your conditions and your wonder plants.
my neighbor around the corner has a larger collection of rhodo's than I and I asked him what was his recorded lowest temperate last winter -25C and the year before -27C at night of course..

So I best be on the lookout for the hardiest and continue to place them in micro-climate locations.
Was just reading about R. sichtonense which resembles r. dauricum that buds damaged at -25C and in the local garden here and the next year while he was on vacation and he lost it due to drought.

Do any of you know if rhodo seed remains viable after storage for a few years? I tried to sow 4year old seed.

[Maggi Young]

Sorry, Stuart, I have no knowledge of longterm viablility of rhodo seed.

[johnw]

Stuart - If you collect seed and place it in a glassine envelope and into a tightly sealed jar it will keep for several years. It can also be placed in the freezer and will last a very long time.  Generally lepidote and vireya seed is short-lived and should be sown rather quickly. There will be exceptions. If seed gets moist it is kaput.


johnw

[nicheplanthead]

John,

    Thanks.
 I was concerned as the seed is so small and does not appear to have a coating so I was thinking that the germination rate would be much lower, something under 40%.  I just was allowed a purchase of surplus seed and took the chance since most were only 1-2 years old and being offered at a very minimal cost I hope.
None seem to be in that category.
Here is what I selected, hopefully they will still be available, some are wild collected in China.   

veseyi
tschonoski
tomentosum
camtschaticum
dauricum
saluenense
lapponica
wittronii

I'm going to use finely milled peat moss and perlite, turface mix under lights with a dome.

[johnw]

Stuart - You would be better off sowing on coarse peat or live green sphagnum moss.  Prick them out when the second true leaf is developed as at this point you can transplant them and tear roots with impunity. It seems at that point they have a brief state of dormancy. Then pot into a suitable mix. A communal pot or flat seems preferable to single plants per pot. Air, air, air.... easy on the perlite as some say fluorine is in it.  Rhodo seedlings love company and the extra roots probably keep the mix from getting stagnant (not a terribly scientific explanation) - in other words better pot bound than over-potted.

wittronii - might be wiltonii, an elepidote in Taliensia or an old lepidote hybrid wilsonii which looks rather pieresque.
 

johnw

[nicheplanthead]

John,

     You are correct on coarse spagham as it was always successful earlier.
I have finely milled peat made for plug culture but will have to test it to see if air gaps are good.
I will be looking for coarse peat but milled to a medium size which I think is better for pot culture, although its difficult to find here.
Using long stranded peat makes it hard to separate seedlings but I guess I shouldn't worry about root damage even at second leaf stage where I usually transplant.
Another novel way I used to use was a whetted clump of just very coarse spagham and by the first leaf scissor around the roots and place into my mix.   

Wiltonii my typo.

thanks again.

This will keep me busy in the winter so I won't get cabin fever being snow bound!

[nicheplanthead]

Anyone know where I can find a good taxon.. tree on the web beside the ARS which does not look complete as I am still to looking for a good book on the genus that will show hardiness. hybrids etc.

I found some old ferrugeium seed and only have one plant so I'd like to know if its still viable being just stored at room temperate.

[nicheplanthead]

Just read on the RHS Rhodo group that seed stored at 2C or less is viable for up to five years.

Well anyways found coarse peat and sowed by old seeds.

[nicheplanthead]

I see that the ontario rockgarden society is recommending a technique very similar to what I have used!
"cut clear pop bottle in half, sprinkle seed on 10 cm damp sphagnum moss, cover with plastic; transplant seedling to acid mix in shade outdoors when 5 cm high; protect from rodents and give protection in cold frame first winter."

[johnw]

Anyone know where I can find a good taxon.. tree on the web beside the ARS which does not look complete as I am still to looking for a good book on the genus that will show hardiness. hybrids etc.

I found some old ferrugeium seed and only have one plant so I'd like to know if its still viable being just stored at room temperate.

I use this dictionary by Herb Spady rather frequently to check out old names and subsections.

http://www.mossin.dk/gert/rhododict.html

The Cox's Encyclopaedia of Rhododendron Species and also their Rhododendron Hybrids are useful. The former with British Hardiness rating but quite accurate for here and the latter we had some input on performance and hardiness for the east here.  Ken Cox has a new book out, well in the last 2-3 years or so, and the latest cultivars, he sorts out the good from the bad and pulls no punches.

Check his website out for the book list.

www.glendoick.com

You might pick these books up on sale at Chapters or Indigo, the former book is out of print I believe so you might try abebooks.

johnw - hideous weather here, +6c and rain after a very cold day yesterday. Frigid on Tuesday and monsoons for the rest of the week. Crazy.