Galanthus Events 2009

[Paddy Tobin]

I wonder if John had copyright on the photograph?

Paddy

[Hagen Engelmann]

Martin, copyright for plants is known. I think to hosta JUNE. But are there other galanthus with copyright too? For snowdrops I hear it the first time.

[Maggi Young]

In fact, with Plant Breeders Rights,  the copyright is actually on the NAME, I believe.... that is to say, if you have a plant that is so protected, you may propagate it, but you may NOT sell or distribute the cuttings/offsets etc as THAT plant. So the person with their £150 E.A. Bowles' may not pass on any bulbs under that name .... they could only be Galanthus plicatus Poculiform Group. ..... that's my understanding of the matter.

[steve owen]

 
Maggie, I'm really puzzled about this. So the hundreds of snowdrop growers who either swap or sell to each other are breaking the law under Plant Breeders Rights? If not, what in simple terms is the difference between selling eg Diggory and EA Bowles?

And if the buyer of EAB wanted to sell some bulked-up offsets in the future, to whom should they send their royalty payment - and how much do they send?

[Martin Baxendale]

In fact, with Plant Breeders Rights,  the copyright is actually on the NAME, I believe.... that is to say, if you have a plant that is so protected, you may propagate it, but you may NOT sell or distribute the cuttings/offsets etc as THAT plant. So the person with their £150 E.A. Bowles' may not pass on any bulbs under that name .... the' could only be Galanthus plicatus Poculiform Gorup. ..... that's my understanding of the matter.

That's a different scheme, under which you can register what amount to 'trade names' for plants to use for marketing purposes in the mass market, and those names are often different to the plant's original cultivar name, so that effectively  the same plant can have two names.

Under the Plant Breeders' Rights scheme, it's the actual plant that is effectively copyright. Any private gardener can of course propagate the plant for their own garden or to give away to other gardeners. But no-one is allowed to sell propagated plants, either under the plant's proper name or under any other name - otherwise there'd be no point in the scheme, as anyone could propagate and sell the protected plant just by giving it a different name.

[Maggi Young]

Martin, you just described exactly what I said .........

It is the name which is protected and for the use of which royalties must be paid.


Steve, propagation by a person for private  use is not prohibited.
 the question of royalties only applies when a plant has  been officially registered under plant breeder's rights...... and few plants have been.

[Martin Baxendale]

Anyone who wants to sell the protected plant must have a licencing agreement with the person who owns the rights to the plant, and pay a royalty to them. The legislation was aimed at protecting the rights of plant breeders who have put a lot of work into raising new varieties, but of course it applies even if someone just finds a new plant self-sown in their garden; it doesn't have to have been deliberately bred.

The legislation only applies to plan ts or bulbs where someone has paid (a lot of money in fees) to register their plant breeder rights to a plant, and it must be a brand new cultivar. No-one can claim rights to exisiting plants already being marketed and sold.

Hagen, this is the first time I've heard of a snowdrop being registered for plant breeder rights. But I'm not surprised; it's has a lot of commercial potential.

[Maggi Young]

And if the buyer of EAB wanted to sell some bulked-up offsets in the future, to whom should they send their royalty payment - and how much do they send?

I have no idea... I do know that w hen one buys a plant which has been so registered thatere is a logo attached to the label stating that is is registered.... I imagine that wholesale growers know which plants are subject to these registrations and must make their application to purchase permission to use the name  and pay the agreed fee. Probably there is a website which tells all about such things....

[Martin Baxendale]

Sorry Maggi but I think we're saying different things. You said that the plant could be sold as Poculiformis Group but not as EA Bowles. I'm saying that (without a licence) you can't sell the plant under any name, EA Bowles, Poculiformis Group or any other name. Not if the plants is registered for plant breeders rights.

If the plant is not registered for plant breeder rights, and someone has registered a trade name for that cultivar, then yes you can sell the plant under its normal cultivar name, but you can't sell it under the registered trade name.

[Maggi Young]

I see what the difference is now, Martin between what we are saying...... I must look into the matter more closely.

Here are some interesting links on the subject....
http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/pvs/pbr/index.htm

http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/pvs/guides/pbrguide-20050317.pdf

http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/pvs/guides/pvsact-20050317.pdf

http://www.defra.gov.uk/planth/pvs/guides/feesnlt1.pdf

http://www.niab.com/services/plant-breeders-rights/pbr-ornamental.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variety_(plant)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultivar#Trade_designations_and_.22selling_names.22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_breeders'_right




 A quote from a website on the  subject...
"The practice of patent protection (legally protecting) is an important tool to encourage the development of new useful cultivars; "protected cultivars" are the result of deliberate breeding programs and selection activity by nurseries and plant breeders, and are often the result of years of work. "Plant patents" and "plant breeder's rights" (which can be expensive to obtain) are means for the breeder or inventor to obtain financial reward for their work.[4]

With plants produced by genetic engineering becoming more widely used, the companies producing these plants (or plants produced by traditional means) often claim a patent on their product. Plants so controlled retain certain rights that accrue not to the grower, but to the firm or agency that engineered the variety.

Some plants are often labeled "PBR", which stands for "plant breeders' rights", or "PVR", which stands for "plant variety rights." It is illegal in countries that obey international law to harvest seeds from a patented "variety" except for personal use. Other means of legal protection include the use of trade marked names whereby the name the plant is sold under is trademarked, but the plant itself not protected. Trademarking a name is inexpensive and requires less work, while patents can take a few years to be granted and have a greater expense. Some previously named cultivars have been renamed and sold under trademarked names.

In horticulture, plants that are patented or trade marked are often licensed to large wholesalers that multiply and distribute the plants to retail sellers. The wholesalers pay a fee to the patent or trade mark holders for each plant sold, those plants that are patented are labeled with "It's unlawful to propagate this plant" or a similar phrase. Typically the license agreement specifies that a plant must be sold with a tag thus marketed to help ensure that unlawfully produced plants are not sold. The use of plant patents is considered unethical by some people. "

[Alan_b]

Back to events, here are two photographs from today's RHS show in London.

The first one was on the Avon Bulbs stand, a snowdrop called 'Green Tear', which is the greenest snowdrop I have ever seen.  The second, 'Ronald McKenzie' was on display for judging.

[Paddy Tobin]

Two lovely flowers, Alan. Well photographed. Many thanks for posting.

Paddy

[Anthony Darby]

Good grief. Superb. Seems I've a long way to go to catch up with all my wants and desires.

[Jo]

Oh dear Alan, its not fair, I want both of them    Is R. Mckenzie a yellow gracilis ?

[Martin Baxendale]

Oh dear Alan, its not fair, I want both of them    Is R. Mckenzie a yellow gracilis ?

Either a yellow gracilis or a hybrid with so much gracilis blood that it looks like a gracilis, I believe. Certainly applanate leaves.