Crocus November 2008

[Andrew]

Time to start a new month.





Crocus laevigatus albus

[Hans A.]

Actually flowering :
Crocus speciosus and Crocus cambessedesii ("f.mathewiiformis" )
- first one has some regular deformations in the petals - might be a genetical ?
- second is a seedling of seed collected in the wild and sawn 4 or 5 years ago - I was quite surprised to find this flower

[udo]

Maggi,
i find a other picture from this white asumaniae

[Maggi Young]

Thanks, Dirk... now I must begin to study all these styles!

[Lesley Cox]

Between you up there and us down here, there are crocuses all year round! Wonderful.

[Armin]

Time to start a new month.



Crocus laevigatus albus

Hi Andrew,

refering to my thoughts a couple of minutes ago in the Crocus October article to Dirk's pictures I'm getting more puzzeled about the differences between C.boryi, C. tournefortii, very pale form and C. leavigatus albus...
Mystifying and fascinating pretty
Who can help the confused?

Hans,
a very attractive this little thing

[Maggi Young]

Hi Andrew,

refering to my thoughts a couple of minutes ago in the Crocus October article to Dirk's pictures I'm getting more puzzeled about the differences between C.boryi, C. tournefortii, very pale form and C. leavigatus albus...
Mystifying and fascinating pretty
Who can help the confused?

SSSHH!     Armin, speak quietly:     .......we Croconuts  must not let the Galanthophiles know that we can sometimes be as confused as they are  !   

[tonyg]

Yes Maggi!  But notice its the little white jobs that are confusing us

Crocus boryi and Crocus laevigatus can be very difficult to tell apart although it is only the white forms of the latter that enter the fray.  The corms are quite useful in that C laevigatus has a corm with a thick eggshell like tunic while that of boryi is thinner and more papery, also laevigatus corms are usually smaller and rounded at the base while boryi has a flat bottom.  (!No comments please )  Briam Mathew notes that the flowers of C boryi never open out flat in the heat while those of C laevigatus do open flat.

As for the various hybrids that are sometimes illustrated I am always sceptical of the attribution of hybrid status when the individuals fall within the range of variation possible in the parents. 

[udo]

Armin,
Cr.tournefortii is also open in the night and at cool weather, Cr.boryi not.
I have not a 100 % guarantee, is this pale form a true tournefortii or a cross with
boryi.

Cr.tournefortii , normal form
         ``       , pure white form

[Andrew]

Crocus kotschyanus kotschyanus HKEP9205 from a friend last year.

[Gerry Webster]

I have not a 100 % guarantee, is this pale form a true tournefortii or a cross with
boryi.
Cr.tournefortii , normal form
         ``       , pure white form

Dirk - the dark form of C. tournefortii is very handsome.

The white form looks like C. tournefortii but it might be worth comparing the filaments in the two forms. According to B. Mathew the filaments of C. tournefortii are hairy & those of C. boryi are not. It's some years since I had C. tournefortii x boryi but, if I remember correctly, the filaments were hairless. Of course this may be variable.

[Armin]

SSSHH! [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]     Armin, speak quietly: [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]     .......we Croconuts  must not let the Galanthophiles know that we can sometimes be as confused as they are  !
[/quote]

  - o.k. Maggi,
I'll keep it secret from now!   :D

Tony,
thank you for the detailed descriptions of the fine differences and for your expertise.
Probably one must see the corms in direct comparison to clearly see the differences.
It is a pity that our weather is too cold now to verify the flowers behaviour in full shine as described by B.M.

Dirk,
thank you for posting the pictures for comparing and your honest reply not realy knowing the origin of the white C. tournefortii.
But it has the long style now in this picture!
I have to admit this white one looks more like C. tournefortii

Gerry, thank you for your hint with the filaments.

[Armin]

Crocus kotschyanus kotschyanus HKEP9205 from a friend last year.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Wunderful! Andrew.
I got a few spare bulbs from the same source. Mine are not in flower yet.
It will help me to replace from my genetically damaged stock of C. kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus.

[tonyg]

Brian Mathew writes that white C tournefortii occur in parts of Crete and meet C boryi in that area.  ..... A recipe for confusion from mother nature there

[Andrew]

Crocus kotschyanus kotschyanus HKEP9205 from a friend last year.

Wunderful! Andrew.
I got a few spare bulbs from the same source. Mine are not in flower yet.
It will help me to replace from my genetically damaged stock of C. kotschyanus ssp. kotschyanus.

Did we get them from the same source ?

Do you have the other subsp. ?