Galanthus mid February to March 2007

[snowdropman]

I've tried to make a better photo, but due to dull weather this
is the best I could get:

- Leaves of Galanthus koenenianus
- Galanthus krasnovii

Thomas - that is much clearer - as you know, I could not work out what the snowdrop in the foreground of your original picture was doing with the leaves of g. krasnovii, when you had said that krasnovii was growing in the background!

The leaves for both your g. koenenianus & your g. krasnovii look absolutely right.

Mark - if I were you, I would get your krasnovii out of its pot straightaway - when I think of krasnovii, I think of the pictures in both the 'Snowdrops' book & 'Genus Galanthus' which show krasnovii flowering in the snow melt, on the edge of a snow field - you need it to be in the ground, where it can be really wet at this time of the year - I grow it in 3 different places in the garden, both light shade & more open (like Thomas, my soil is sandy) & it seems equally happy in its several locations.

[snowdropman]

In 2007 the P.A. system was working perfectly and I don't recall that anything in that auction raised as much as £50

Alan - I can recall two that went for £50+ ('The Bride' & 'Lady Fairhaven') & I think that there was possibly another.

[snowdropman]

Only one snowdrop still to come and is only just above ground now. It's the green tipped Czech snowdrop nivalis 'Green Ibis'. Even though it is now growing in western Europe it has an eastern Europe inner clock

I hope that you have planted it in a really shady, cool part of your garden, which it will need if it is to flower - I grow all of my nivalis in a north facing bed, in the shade of a beech & hazlewood hedge &, bang on their regular time (in spite of the generally warmer winter that we have had this year) the main crop of them are just starting to emerge/starting to open their flowers - with luck, they will last well into March, with one or two stretching into April.

[mark smyth]

OK Chris

I cant believe people on Ebay have pushed the price of 'Lady Elphinstone' to £26 for one. It's usually £8 or £9

[snowdropman]

to be sure of getting bulbs for sale true to the original, the grower can only chip bulbs produced naturally by division from the original clump, which slows things down a lot.

Martin - very interested in what you have to say.

I have a single bulb, which I know to be as a result of chipping, but where the 'mother' bulb was produced naturally - my bulb appears to be true to the original.

I am considering getting my bulb chipped. However, I have been getting conflicting advice on the adviseability of doing this - some suggest that I should allow the bulb to settle for a few years before attempting to chip it, others say that provided the bulb is a reasonable size, for the variety, then chipping it now should not be a problem.

If I have correctly understood what you say, whilst there is a risk that the resultant bulbs will not come true, because what I have is a chipped bulb which is true to a 'mother' bulb that was naturally produced, this risk is probably small? Would that be a fair statement?

I would be very grateful for your further thoughts.

[Anthony Darby]

Which form are you talking about Chris? 'South Hayes'?

[annew]

Well, I'm confused  Is it only some varieties that are 'unstable' when chipped, and if so which ones? Also talking of instability - Please someone tell me how to make Lady Elphinstone come yellow. None of my considerable number are yellow this year  (incidentally all are naturally divided, not chipped)

[snowdropman]

Which form are you talking about Chris? 'South Hayes'?

Anthony - I think that 'South Hayes' is probably a good example of the dangers that Martin is flagging.

There was earlier discussion on the Forum about the variation in markings on the outer petals, and I have seen some examples that only have the markings on some of the outer petals, or even none at all.

[mark smyth]

Anne none of my 'Ladys' were yellow this year. One was last year. They were moved in 2005

[snowdropman]

Also talking of instability - Please someone tell me how to make Lady Elphinstone come yellow. None of my considerable number are yellow this year  (incidentally all are naturally divided, not chipped)

Anne - the usual answer is of course that they take a year or two to settle down after being moved, before reverting to yellow - but in your case it sounds as if the flowers were previously yellow, that you have not disturbed your clump, but that now the flowers have come out green?

If this is the case, I do not have an immediate answer, save to say that, in conjunction with another forumist, I am experimenting by growing a 'Lady Elphinstone' that consistently flowered green in their garden to see if, in a year or two years time, it reverts to yellow in my garden (and they are growing one of mine, which flowers yellow in my garden, to see whether it consistently reverts to green in their garden). The only thoughts at the moment are that it may have something to do with growing/climatic conditions.

[Martin Baxendale]

It was South Hayes that I was thinking of in particuar re. instability and chipping, especially in view of earlier discussions about varying outer marks on South Hayes.

Most snowdrops are fine chipped from chipped bulbs, even quite small ones and quite recently chipped ones. I've done it and had no problems with any varieties (although my own chips of South Hayes from a bought chipped bulb have yet to flower!)

But I suspect the odd variety of two with very unusual flower type or marking, probably the result of genetic instability (like South Hayes), may be prone to throwing a genetic wobbly when chipped. If a grower knows of this, then I think they have a duty to let customers know they're encountered the problem.

With a variety that is suspected to do this, I would imagine the further away from the mother bulb you get with chipping 'generations' the more risk of it happening. I can't say for sure, of course. And I don't know if letting a chipped bulb of say South Hayes settle for a year or two might help lower any risk. My instinctive feeling is that it might. But I don't know. The only people who could shed any real light are those growers who have regularly chipped bulbs like South Hayes that seem like they may be variable after propagating.

There is also a broader question about constant rapid multiplication by chipping, in that it may eventually weaken the plant. Experienced nurserymen, I know, have long advocated using the same old stock plants to propagate vegetatively from (whether cuttings, layers, whatever) rather than using recently propagated younger plants for propagating material. The reasoning is, I believe, that in some way you 'age' the plant rapidly if you do the latter (constantly using newly-propagated plants as material to propagate from), that somehow each 'generation' of vegetative propagations away from the original plant makes the variety less robust.

[snowdropman]

Most snowdrops are fine chipped from chipped bulbs, even quite small ones and quite recently chipped ones.

Martin - many thanks for your further thoughts, which makes things very clear - I am going to go ahead and get my single bulb chipped.

[snowdropman]

I cant believe people on Ebay have pushed the price of 'Lady Elphinstone' to £26 for one. It's usually £8 or £9

Ivycroft Plants have it on their List for £6 a bulb!

[Lesley Cox]

So where's the fish in all this?

[mark smyth]

where would we be if all sports are left in the wild? In theory it's illegal to lift Ranunculus ficaria from the wild because it has coloured leaves or unusual flowers but it's OK to spray herbicide on them in the garden. As for snowdrops if we stop someone lifting a few bulbs for a garden or friend something really needs to be done about the 1000s of bulbs that are lifted to supply the garden centre trade