Northumberland yellow galanthus

[steve owen]

The Northumberland yellow galanthus - does anyone know where in Northumberland they originated? Its a big county! And is the fact that they occurred there, and another group of yellows at Wandlebury near Cambridge, thought to be pure coincidence, or is there something common to these locations in terms of soil type or whatever?

[mark smyth]

When I was in Northumberland a few years ago the yellows were present most times we stopped to look at snowdrops. I would say it's genetics that leads to so many.

Yellow is usually a recessive colour, I used to breed parakeets crossing various colours to produce desireable colours, and needs two recessive genes for yellow to be present to produce yellow. I'll not go into detail. Where there is a good poplulation of yellows there is enough yellow genes to keep the yellow population going. A single yellow in a wood will not produce yellows quickly

[Maggi Young]

John Richards will have the Yellow Snowdrops of Northumberland as his topic for one of the talks the RBGE Galanthus Day..... see here for more details: http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2597.msg59338;topicseen#msg59338     so perhaps you need to be making a journey north to learn more, Steve!

[steve owen]

Mark, did you get good results from crossing parakeets with snowdrops?

[David Nicholson]

.....maybe white ones with little green marks?

[mark smyth]

No none at all.

I'm only guessing that yellow in snowdrops is recessive just like it is in e.g. budgies unless it is sex-linked but that I cant remember. Cross pollinating yellow snowdrops with yellow snowdrops could lead to sick plants as it does with parakeets. Martin maybe knows more.

[Anthony Darby]

.....maybe white ones with little green marks?

Not so much a snowdrop poll as a snowdrop polly?

[Alan_b]

So far nobody has mentioned that the Northumberland yellows are Galanthus nivalis whilst the Wandlebury yellows are a different species, Galanthus plicatus.  I live a few miles from Wandlebury and the underlying rock in this area is chalk, so the soil tends to be alkaline.  I think the Northumberland yellows tend to occur on acid soil.

I seem to remember Joe Sharman saying at a talk that he has not met with any success in trying to cross-breed Wendy's Gold (the most famous/readily available of the Wandlebury yellows) with other snowdrops, for example to produce a yellow version of Trym.  If the yellow colouration were controlled by a single recessive gene and the outer markings of Trym by another gene, then although the first generation of a Trym x Wendys would all be green, a quarter of the next generation ({Trym x Wendys} X {Trym x Wendys}) should be yellow.  I don't know if breeding attempts have got this far.           

[johnw]

a quarter of the next generation ({Trym x Wendys} X {Trym x Wendys}) should be yellow.       

I don't know if it works the same in Galanthus, but here, in rhododendron, a cross of (x x y) x (x x z) is more successful to achieve such results without losing vigour.  That's assuming x, y and z are species and not hybrids.  So perhaps (plicatus Trym x nivalis Savill Gold) x (plicatus Trym x a yellow elwesii) would be worth a try or (plicatus Trym x plicatus Wendy's Gold) x (plicatus Trym x plicatus Bill Clarke). Just a thought.

Had an email from a Scottish friend today saying they at long last found a brain in England but it was 2,000 years old.  I was puzzled until I saw the news tonight. 

johnw

[galanthophile]

I am from Northumberland - where do people go to look for snowdrops in my county?

[mark smyth]

woods, copses and graveyards. All the yellows we saw that day were left in place.

[johnw]

re: Northumberland graveyard.

Lovely shots Mark.

Thanks

johnw - +17c here yesterday and very blustery, +2c today and going to -7 to -9c tonight. Trillium grandiflorum double poking up at its peril. Helleborus niger in full bloom.

[Anthony Darby]

a quarter of the next generation ({Trym x Wendys} X {Trym x Wendys}) should be yellow.       

I don't know if it works the same in Galanthus, but here, in rhododendron, a cross of (x x y) x (x x z) is more successful to achieve such results without losing vigour.  That's assuming x, y and z are species and not hybrids.  So perhaps (plicatus Trym x nivalis Savill Gold) x (plicatus Trym x a yellow elwesii) would be worth a try or (plicatus Trym x plicatus Wendy's Gold) x (plicatus Trym x plicatus Bill Clarke). Just a thought.

Had an email from a Scottish friend today saying they at long last found a brain in England but it was 2,000 years old.  I was puzzled until I saw the news tonight. 

johnw

Using 'x' and 'y' in a cross should be avoided unless you are talking males and females, and then there is the use of 'x' for cross, which adds to the confusion. There are plenty of other letters in the alphabet. A x B works; x x y doesn't.

[KentGardener]

.....a cross of (x x y) x (x x z) is more successful to achieve such results....

Using 'x' and 'y' in a cross should be avoided unless you are talking males and females, and then there is the use of 'x' for cross, which adds to the confusion. There are plenty of other letters in the alphabet. A x B works; x x y doesn't.

Anthony

I am glad you explained that - I was confused by (x x y) x (x x z) - I thought must be some sort of triple cross happening on each side.  Now I understand it was (a x b) x (a x c). 

Thank you.

John

[johnw]

.....a cross of (x x y) x (x x z) is more successful to achieve such results....

Using 'x' and 'y' in a cross should be avoided unless you are talking males and females, and then there is the use of 'x' for cross, which adds to the confusion. There are plenty of other letters in the alphabet. A x B works; x x y doesn't.

Anthony

I am glad you explained that - I was confused by (x x y) x (x x z) - I thought must be some sort of triple cross happening on each side.  Now I understand it was (a x b) x (a x c). 

Thank you.

John

John / Anthony

Apologies for the confusion.   You see for starters I intended (X x Y) x (X x Z).  Anthony is correct, the obvious ABC should have been used. This explains why a brain has not yet been found in Nova Scotia.

In rhodos you tend to get  a few seeds and fewer healthy seedlings from such crosses; still more seeds than you would get with an F2 cross like ({Trym x Wendys} seedling #1 X {Trym x Wendys} seedling #2) or (Trym x Wendys) selfed. An F2 can occasionally produce spectacular results .


johnw - +17c yesterday, -9c tonight, +9c on Monday.