Re: Winter snowdrops

[Hagen Engelmann]

I mean RB is the only virescens-type of g elwesii. Never heard of another. I don`t know, what Magaret Biddulph is. Also the most of g n virescens are only single bulbs.

[mark smyth]

Hagan you didnt miss much on Countryfile

[mark smyth]

This is 'Mary Biddulph'
http://www.snowdropinfo.com/elwesii-virescent.html

[Hagen Engelmann]

Mark, good to have some friends out of BBC . Do you know the original source of MB?

[mark smyth]

Yes I do. It was found at Rodmarton a few years ago.

[mark smyth]

'Mary Biddulph' - a virescent Galanthus elwesii
-

[Alan_b]

I mean RB is the only virescens-type of g elwesii. Never heard of another. I don`t know, what Magaret Biddulph is. Also the most of g n virescens are only single bulbs.

I found a nearby garden where virescent elwesii crop up fairly frequently.  As far as I know, none of them yet have names.  One went to Avon Bulbs but, apparently, did not survive and one went to Colesbourne.  Another local galanthophile had several.  I have managed to keep one alive since I found it in 2005 and I now have three bulbs (at the last count) when I started with one.  I am not a highly experienced grower and I did not plant it in the best spot initially, so it must have some strength if not vigour.  The first photo is of my 2005 find and the second of another given to me in 2008.

[Alan_b]

Alan - Most of the Galanthophiles live around Victoria in the rain shadow.  The west coast of the island is certainly a different matter - see Tofino's rainfall!

You're right it is Burnaby and I think I sent John Grimshaw a note on that mistake after the first edition came out.  Is the mistake in the second edition as well? It gets a tad warmer in summer in Surrey to the south of Burnaby than in Vancouver as I recall but virtually the same rainfall as Vancouver. Friends in N. Vancouver near Deep Cove get a fair bit more rain in the winter than Vancouver proper.  Climatically it is a very complicated region.

So the Jury's out on why Rosemary Burnham isn't performing well in similar rainfall areas.  I wonder if there have been losses in Victoria.

When RB was first mentioned in the literature it was Francesca. They thought RB was found by Francisca Darts. I notified them that it was RB who found it. Somehow it got published as Francesca. Should a drop ever be named after Francisca do you think the different spelling would stand or would it be a nomen confusum?

johnw 

Thank you for this extra information, John.  If you do know more about the discovery of RB, I too would love to hear about it.  I found my first local virescent elwesii growing next to a lamppost!

[johnw]

Alan / Hagen - This is the email I sent to John Grimshaw in August of 1998 just before 'Rosemary Burnham' was to be published as Francesca, today's observations are bracketed & preceded by 2009.

"This is the official story on the green Galanthus. Talked to Rosemary Burnham of Vancouver tonight. She and Bodil Leamy (formerly at UBC Bot Gard) were combing through an old garden in Burnaby, BC about 35 years ago when she (RB) discovered the G. in question. The house was, or was being, torn down and had been abandoned for sometime. There were interesting plants in that area as it was a farm community then and not the suburban area it is now. She collected it and gave some to a friend, an incredidle grower, the late Thelma Chapman also of Vancouver. Thelma gave it to Don Armstrong, also in Vancouver. Don got quite a few going. When Thelma died" (2009 - late 1980's) "she had quite a stock built up and all went to Don." (2009- before she died) It had petered out in Rosemary's garden as it got over-grown and she was thankful to get it back from Don." (2009 - note Pam Frost of Vancouver and good friend of Rosemary's says either the original or the replacement in RB's garden was stolen) -   "About 4 years ago" (2009 - it was 1993 but I think I had it in 1987 as well, it had not bloomed or I hadn't noticed it) "I got a bulb or two from Don as did B. Mathew" who was speaking in Vancouver that February." (2009 - we were both at Don's that morning and I remember Brian was stunned to see it) "I was advised last year by Don that it was to be now known as Rosemary Burnham after the founder" (2009 - meant finder).  "I advised BM (as well as Louise Vockins" (2009 - of Foxgrove Plants) "and Stella Tracey of Shaugh Prior, Devon who had been sent 1 each by me) of the new name. Francisca (and it is with an i) (2009-Francisca Darts of Surrey, BC) got it from Don Armstrong and later distributed it to Margaret Charlton" (2009 - of North Vancouver) "who mistakenly thought it had originated with Francisca. Rosemary told me that when she found and collected it she didn't think it was terribly unusual and was sure there must be others about."

It was Don who researched elwesii through the RHS to find out if green cultivars were known. Before Don died he gave me another clump from the sizeable clump that grew in front of his house (to the left of the door as recall). I just found a slide of my 1995 clump from the one or two 1993 bulb(s) and I can't believe how vigorous it was and with so many flowers - sickening in retrospect.

As you may know Rosemary died last year but Bodil Leamy is still alive.  I intend to phone her tomorrow when I dig out her phone number. The reason, I said above "She collected it". Something has been haunting me of late and Hagen hit the nail on the head..."it" may have been several. The attached article I posted here before says they noticed they were different.  If so, were they offsets or green seedlings? I intend to find out. John G certainly spoke to Rosemary and maybe even Bodil after the above letter so "it" may indeed by correct. The book says it mysteriously appeared on the edge of Foxgrove's display at the RHS 1998, probably the one I sent her; obviously she got it on its feet rather quickly.  

Somewhere in the house I also have pix of Don's garden and the clumps of RB circa 1987. If I can find them I'll scan them.  I blame Don for getting me interested in these bulbs - a keen and generous plantsman he was.

johnw

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks for posting this John, most useful information.

[Anthony Darby]

Alan, your virescent elwesii are extremely nice. Hang on to them a let them flourish. Then get someone to bulk them up. I think you are on to a winner (or two?).

[Alan_b]

Thanks, John, I love these stories of how snowdrops were discovered and how they have fared thereafter.  I don't imagine anybody in the UK has a large clump of Rosemary Burnham, because it is too desirable and, I understand, too difficult to keep alive.

For the record, the local garden that tends to produce virescent elwesiis does this one at a time in different locations within one area where there are large numbers of snowdrops.  But, as I said in my previous post, I have managed to keep the first of these to be found since 2005 and bulk it up a little so there is no reason to think it would not form a clump given sufficient time and patience.

[Hagen Engelmann]

Alan, a lot of g elwesii aren`t good builders of a clump. They like to be a single. I mean, that virescens-types also like to be only singles. And when these all come together....?? Did you saw clumps of the very nice g n virescens from your nearby garden?

[Paddy Tobin]

After a week or more of very harsh weather, heavy frosts and freezing conditions day an night, we have had two days of more normal Irish weather with with and lots of rain. The snowdrops have responded immediately and many which seemed to be just peeping above ground have suddenly shot up though it is still too dark for them to open fully.

Looking promising at the moment are G. 'Barbara's Double', 'John Grey', 'Anglesey Abbey', 'Mrs. Thompson', 'Atikinsii', 'x Allennii', 'Compton Court', 'Warham', 'Ophelia' and 'Paradise Giant' and, if weather and light are obliging I should be able to post photographs later in the week.

Unfortunately, another spell of very cold weather is forecast for tomorrow and Wednesday and I hope this doesn't lay these all low again. They are all growing in the open garden.

Paddy

[Anthony Darby]

My 'John Gray' is just coming out, but the stems are very short this year: not much more that an inch or two. I'm going to have a look round the garden centres as they seem to have a lot of elwesii (correctly labelled, for a change ) this year.