Author Topic: Crocus January - 2009 (Read 65750 times)

Kees Jan · « **Reply #30 on:** January 03, 2009, 02:10:03 PM »

Quote

"Seeing the corm (typical cancellatus) I would more tend to new species than to hybrid. If hybrid between pallasii and kotschyanus would be possible (under greeat question marks) as they are placed not very far in new phylogenetic tree, then cancellatus is situated very far. Cancellatus is closer to biflorus than to kotschyanus. (see Petersen @ al.. Phylogeny of Crocus, Taxon 57: 2 - once more great thanks to Ian Young for information of article). Cancellatus is closer to biflorus than to kotschyanus. Greetings!!!
Janis"

Hello Janis,

New species would be nice. We just found two or three of these plants in a larger cancellatus ssp. cancellatus population so I tend to think it is more likely to be a hybrid. We did not see any pallasii ssp. pallasii, it may be around at Findikpinar, but perhaps a bit later.

A bit further west we found pallasii ssp. dispathaceus, some of them had very dark flowers. Further east, near the Syrian border, we found what we believe must be pallasii ssp. turcicus.

Oron Peri · « **Reply #31 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:55:47 PM »

Quote from: Kees Jan on January 03, 2009, 02:10:03 PM

A bit further west we found pallasii ssp. dispathaceus, some of them had very dark flowers. Further east, near the Syrian border, we found what we believe must be pallasii ssp. turcicus.

Hello Kees,

What a beautiful dark form of palasii dispathaceus

I have doubts about the pallasii turcicus, it is too similar to pallasii pallasii from my region [Israel, and S. Syria], I think pallasii turcicus has narrower petals that are half way between the two other ssp. mentioned.
attached pallasii pallasii from Israel.

I.S. · « **Reply #32 on:** January 03, 2009, 06:22:38 PM »

Kees, your unknowen crocus is 'Crocus boissieri'

Which I have never seen before.

I wish a happy new year to all friends.

Guff · « **Reply #33 on:** January 03, 2009, 06:27:11 PM »

Janis, your heuffelianus are amazing. I had thought Dark Wonder and Darkeyes were the same plant? Had thought there was a typo or mix up in names.

On the old forum Dark Wonder
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/23568.html

Is Tatra Shades and Uklin Strain yours also? Picture taken last spring.

Oron Peri · « **Reply #34 on:** January 03, 2009, 06:40:58 PM »

Quote from: ibrahim on January 03, 2009, 06:22:38 PM

Kees, your unknowen crocus is 'Crocus boissieri'
Which I have never seen before.
I wish a happy new year to all friends.

Ibrahim...i take off my hat...

Armin · « **Reply #35 on:** January 03, 2009, 10:18:51 PM »

What a dynamic crocus start into 2009.

C. baytoporium, C.abantensis, C.ancyrensis, C. x paulinae, C.heuffelianus variations, C. pallassi dispathaceus dark form,
and finally "C. bossieri" re-discovered!

Guys - you made my highlight of the day!
Thank you!

Janis Ruksans · « **Reply #36 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:17:43 AM »

Quote from: Guff on January 03, 2009, 06:27:11 PM

Janis, your heuffelianus are amazing. I had thought Dark Wonder and Darkeyes were the same plant? Had thought there was a typo or mix up in names.

On the old forum Dark Wonder
http://www.srgc.org.uk/discus/messages/5012/23568.html

Is Tatra Shades and Uklin Strain yours also? Picture taken last spring.

Crocus heuffelianus Tatra Shades and Uklin strain were introduced by Michael Hoog [(later Hoog & Dix Export (Holland), now Antoine Hoog (France)]. Tatra Shades originates from Krakow Botanical garden (Polland) under name C. scepusinensis, Uklin strain is my, but plants on picture seem to be from Lizja Pass, see my entry on this topic a little earlier.

Dark Wonder and Dark Eyes are different. I'm attaching picture of Dark Eyes here. Dark Wonder is of Carpathian Wonder type but with light purple (instead of white) basic color. Dark Eyes is clone of C. heuffelianus with very prominent dark blotch on tepal tips and slightly rounder flower shape (see attached picture). As Crocus heuffelianus species I'm offering unselected seedlings of typical color.

I'm attaching another picture of accidental seedling from Carpathian Wonder (pity, it isn't mine) found by my Estonian friend in his garden - still single corm, hope it will increase and soon I will have it, too.

Janis
P.S. Tonight we had minus 21 C outside, next one night is promissed even colder but then weather will change to warmer.

Paul T · « **Reply #37 on:** January 04, 2009, 10:42:01 AM »

Janis,

Your heuffelianus are stunning. I have recently received Carpathian Wonder from a friend here in Australia on the forum, so await seeing a flower of it in the future in person rather than just on computer monitor. All the various ones you have shown are just amazing. Beautiful!!

mark smyth · « **Reply #38 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:09:50 PM »

What about this for Crocus michelsonii?

Kees Jan · « **Reply #39 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:53:11 PM »

Ibrahim, thanks for the information, I suppose you mean the 'hybrid' from Findikpinar, or did you mean the pallasii found near Syria? Do you have any information about Crocus boissieri, such as a description or its distribution? (I can't find boissieri in the Flora of Turkey). By the way, we also found Colchicum boissieri at Findikpinar.

Oron, it does look VERY similar to your picture of pallasii ssp. pallasii from Israel. The pallasii was photographed just west of Kilis. I thought it was pallasii ssp. turcicus because I did not think pallasii ssp. pallasii occured in the area around Kilis. Also, Dave Millward mentioned pallasii ssp. turcicus from the Kilis area and west of Gaziantep in November 2007 on this forum (http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=943.msg23553) and his pictures also look very similar to my pallasii picture, so I'm a bit confused now.

Kees Jan

udo · « **Reply #40 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:59:44 PM »

Janis,
you write, the second Cr.heuffelianus is a hybrid.
With what for a form or sp.?
I have the same or very similar form from this Crocus,
growing since many years by me.

Maggi Young · « **Reply #41 on:** January 04, 2009, 01:53:29 PM »

Quote from: Kees Jan on January 04, 2009, 12:53:11 PM

Do you have any information about Crocus boissieri, such as a description or its distribution? (I can't find boissieri in the Flora of Turkey). By the way, we also found Colchicum boissieri at Findikpinar.

Kees Jan

Kees Jan, I do not have the issue in question, but I hope that some Forumist will have it and be able to share it with you.... here is a reference to Crocus boissieri which I believe would be helpful...
Kerndorff, H. and Pasche, E. 1998. Miscellaneous Note 1: On the type locality of Crocus boissieri (Iridaceae). The New Plantsman, Vol. 5, Part 1: 11-14.

I.S. · « **Reply #42 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:50:48 PM »

Maggi thank you very much, Just I was thinking what to say.
Kees, I mean your unusual C. cancellatus the others are correct and very nice form of C. pallasii ssp. dispathaceus
For C. boissieri I was not sure but I have seen this name in severel links. And distribution is Mersin where you have been. but I also don’t have further information.

http://biow.tubitak.gov.tr/present/taxonForm1.jsp?taxon=4727
http://vanherbaryum.yyu.edu.tr/flora/famgenustur/crocus.htm
http://www.cedgm.gov.tr/icd_raporlari/mersinicd2003.pdf

Janis Ruksans · « **Reply #43 on:** January 04, 2009, 04:57:06 PM »

Quote from: udo on January 04, 2009, 12:59:44 PM

Janis,
you write, the second Cr.heuffelianus is a hybrid.
With what for a form or sp.?
I have the same or very similar form from this Crocus,
growing since many years by me.

It is selfsawn seedling suddenly appearing in grass. Yours is very similar.
Janis

Janis Ruksans · « **Reply #44 on:** January 04, 2009, 05:01:43 PM »

Quote from: ibrahim on January 03, 2009, 06:22:38 PM

Kees, your unknowen crocus is 'Crocus boissieri'
Which I have never seen before.

I wish a happy new year to all friends.

Ibrahim, I understood it as joke. Boissieri must be spring bloomer and most important - filaments are much longer than anthers - see cited The Plantsman where is herbarium sample foto. On Kees plant it is just opposite.
Janis

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