Crocus January - 2009

[Diane Clement]

I thought Latin or Latinised names were invalid for cultivars. Obviously more research is required.  Edit : I wonder if Bowles originally named it 'Albus' & we are dealing with priority here? 

I don't know about the priority in this instance.  In general the rule is that cultivar names should not be in Latin if they were named after 1959.  Older ones still hold. 

[Gerry Webster]

Thanks Diane. This seems to clarify the matter.

[Maggi Young]

Bowles wrote:
 " In 1923 I found two pure white youngsters among my seedlings, after thirty years of hopeful expectation. the better ofthese has increased freely and it the best white and orange spring Crocus I know. It is now known as 'Bowles's White', has received an AM and is "A" in the plate 7 illustrating Mr Burtt's article in the Journal R.H.S. for January 1949.
The wonderfully fine contrast between its pure white perianth with the orange throat and scarlet stigmata is only equalled among Crocuses by the autumnal C. niveus"

I have no access to the RHS 1949 Journal.

[Lvandelft]

Here is a link to a picture in the Bulb Log:

http://www.srgc.org.uk/bulblog/log2007/070207/log.html

and a link to a page out of the book of Janis Ruksans: Page 356

http://books.google.nl/books?id=imfVg9lqnKIC&pg=RA2-PA356&lpg=RA2-PA356&dq=Crocus+sieberi+Bowles+White&source=bl&ots=A_Oucb2SpZ&sig=N1y_EAhJiQr4TQ266s0ULiWbp3k&hl=nl&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result

Maybe it is of help too??

[Lesley Cox]

Can't add anything useful to this discussion so won't try. 'BW' will always remain 'BW' to me, one of the best early spring crocuses, vigorous, clean colour and increases well.

I do, however, wish to congratulate Fermi on his new home. In spite of comments that Australian house prices are falling - they are here too - I'll bet he had to pay a pretty penny for THAT one.

[Janis Ruksans]

I saw the description of Bowles White as:Throat orange, flowers large, globular, pure white.
Is this the case with Gerry's plant?

Yes Luit, more-or-less. Though the flowers this year are not (so far) as large as they were last.

C. sieberi 'Bowles's White' is pictured (opposite p. 92) and named just as 'Bowles's White' in EAB Handbook.
EAB wrote: "In 1923 I found two pure white youngsters among my seedlings, after thirty years of hopeful expectation. The better of these has increased freely and is the best white and orange spring Crocus I know. It is now known as 'Bowles's White', has received an A.M. and is 'A' in the plate 7 illustrating Mr. Burtt's article in the Journal RHS for January, 1949."
By Handbook it seems that EAB didn't gave this name, but it was named by someone else.
It is registered by KAVB as 'Bowles' White' (note difference in spelling), got A.M. RHS in 1978. (published in Register-1991, but not included in edition 1975)
I not remember since which year it is not allowed more to use latinised forms in cultivar names, can't to find for a moment where is my copy of Codex. To elder cultivars still latinised forms are conserved.
Of course - BWh is hybrid as it never set seeds. There are pure white sieberi in nature, too, but they all are smaller in size.
Janis

[Diane Clement]

I not remember since which year it is not allowed more to use latinised forms in cultivar names, can't to find for a moment where is my copy of Codex. To elder cultivars still latinised forms are conserved.   

It's 1959 Janis (see my post above)

[Gerry Webster]

Of course - BWh is hybrid as it never set seeds.

Janis - do we know this? Could it not be a sterile triploid?

[Janis Ruksans]

Of course - BWh is hybrid as it never set seeds.

Janis - do we know this? Could it not be a sterile triploid?

It is another possibility, but I'm following analogy with Hubert Edelsten (hybrid between subsp. sieberi and subsp. atticus - sterile, too) - by size and shape almost same but color.
Janis

[David Nicholson]

Luit, I couldn't open either of the Links.

Luit, just to let you know both Links opened perfectly for me this evening. Don't know what I did wrong last night.

[Lesley Cox]

Crocus sieberi `Bowles' White' (as purchased from Potterton and Martin if I remember rightly in 1993), has once set seed for me. The seedlings were mainly pale lavenders and yellows, not unlike some of the cvijicii x veluchensis seedlings.

[Lvandelft]

Luit, I couldn't open either of the Links.

Luit, just to let you know both Links opened perfectly for me this evening. Don't know what I did wrong last night.

David, my other half means, it might depend on the number of drinks ...

[Gerry Webster]

Crocus sieberi `Bowles' White' (as purchased from Potterton and Martin if I remember rightly in 1993), has once set seed for me. The seedlings were mainly pale lavenders and yellows, not unlike some of the cvijicii x veluchensis seedlings.

Lesley - this is very interesting. Were your plants selfed or cross-pollinated by some other species. The yellow offspring are curious. It seems that some plants are described as sterile when they are only self-sterile. Crocus sativus is a case in point, for this can be pollinated by other members of the saffron group. A few years ago I had seed on C. sativus, probably pollinated by nearby C. cartwrightianus, but I was struck down (literally) before I could do anything with the seed so I have no idea what they would have produced.

[tonyg]

Like Lesley I have had seed from BW once - I await  first flowers with interest.

[Janis Ruksans]

Crocus sieberi `Bowles' White' (as purchased from Potterton and Martin if I remember rightly in 1993), has once set seed for me. The seedlings were mainly pale lavenders and yellows, not unlike some of the cvijicii x veluchensis seedlings.

I just got following mail from my Australian friend Marcus Harvey, who travelled in Greece:
"There are many albinos of Crocus sieberi ssp sublimis in the wild its not such a big deal. On Mt Chelmos alone one could see 10% of the population in this form. I think there are the same number of clones in cult. My stock sets seed and definitely not a hybrid, it throws maybe 60% true. Maybe too much is being read into Mr Bowles' selection, which is probably lost long ago."
My own plants certainly never set seeds although I tried to pollinate them - of course, it was not cros-pollination as I used only other plant of same clone. Will try this spring if there will be potential pollen parent of sieberi flowering in same time.
Janis