Crocus January - 2009

[Thomas Huber]

Bowles White grows well in the open garden for me, but I was surprised to read
that most of you don't get any seed from it - mine set seed reliable every year!
My stock was received some years ago from Dix-Export, so possibly from Dutch fields.

[Gerry Webster]

I wonder whether there is more than one clone in cultivation under the name 'Bowles' White' (or 'Albus')? My own plants are almost certainly Dutch imports & I suspect that this is probably true of most of the plants grown in the UK. 'Bowles' White' is available very cheaply in the trade, yet it was  described many years ago (1983) by Paul Christian as "slow to increase".  If this is  true, it might suggest that the trade plants are seed-raised & therefore not entitled to the clonal name. In other words, Marcus Harvey may well be correct.   

[dominique]

Janis
As Lesley and Tony, I obtained seeds of BW last year and sow them in september. Wait wait wait !!!

[Lesley Cox]

Thanks for that Janis. Marcus sent me the same note and I was going to post it here.

Gerry, my BW - the ones which had the seed - are in a trough which is alongside the trough which has both CC. cvijicii and veluchensis so it's possible there was cross-pollinating from either or both of those since they are in the same series Reticulati (Mathew). Going from Mathew's notes, veluchensis is more likely but the yellow colouring of some suggests cvijicii as veluchensis is always lavender or purple coloured, never varying into yellow. They're down now but I'll take a picture in the early spring to post here.

Looking back at my (admittedly sparse) notes, the BW seed was the same year I had seed on cvijicii, which turned out to be hybrids with veluchensis. The following summer I moved the cvijicii into a raised bed and I've not had seed on either species since, so again, cvijicii seems likely as a pollinator for the BW. I've not had seed on cvijicii in its new position nor on veluchensis ever. I'm now wondering if some of the very pale yellow seedlings on the cvijicii were from pollen off BW.

[Lesley Cox]

I should have mentioned, though I suppose it was obvious, that all my seed on BW and cvijicii has been inadvertant, i.e. I didn't do any pollinating, it was only from insects, wind or whatever.

[Gerry Webster]

Lesley - recent work on crocus phylogeny based on DNA analysis suggests that C. sieberi  is rather more closely related to C. cvijicii than it is to C. veluchensis so your guess that C.cvijicii might be the pollinator may well be correct.
 

[Tony Willis]

Lesley - recent work on crocus phylogeny based on DNA analysis suggests that C. sieberi  is rather more closely related to C. cvijicii than it is to C. veluchensis so your guess that C.cvijicii might be the pollinator may well be correct.
 

Mathew in 'The Crocus' says that C. veluchensis is most closely related to C. cvijicii and can only be distinguished on flower colour and then says that it is not possible to identify some crocuses growing on Mt Parnassus as being either C.veluchensis or C. sieberi or hybrids between them. Clearly they can all interbreed when brought together.

[Tony Willis]

Some in flower today brought into the warmth so they have opened rather wide.

In the case of Crocus nevadensis this is propped up having elongated
A couple of Crocus biflorus ssp crewii with two views of cr275
A Crocus biflorus issauricus
A Crocus chrysanthus

[Tony Willis]

A few more
Crocus gargaricus from Goktepe not the Ulu dag form
Crocus oliveri
Crocus danfordiae
Crocus fleischeri yet another one
Crocus biflorus ssp pulchricolor white

[Luc Gilgemyn]

Great shots Tony !   
I'm particularly fond of the black anthered C. biflorus crewii ! 
Delightful !

[Gerry Webster]

Lesley - recent work on crocus phylogeny based on DNA analysis suggests that C. sieberi  is rather more closely related to C. cvijicii than it is to C. veluchensis so your guess that C.cvijicii might be the pollinator may well be correct.
 

Mathew in 'The Crocus' says that C. veluchensis is most closely related to C. cvijicii and can only be distinguished on flower colour and then says that it is not possible to identify some crocuses growing on Mt Parnassus as being either C.veluchensis or C. sieberi or hybrids between them. Clearly they can all interbreed when brought together.

Tony - the recent work on Crocus phylogeny (the reference is given by IY in post 128 of  Dec. Crocus)  broadly confirms BM's classification but there are discrepancies. While CC veluchensis, cvijicii & sieberi remain closely related their relationship as shown on the cladogram is as I stated above. Admittedly, this work is preliminary & suggestive only. As the authors concede, further work is required before we can draw firm conclusions

[Tony Willis]

Gerry thanks for that, I can only comment as a complete amateur from the botanical perspective ,but one who has observed them and their behaviour in the wild and in cultivation.

I suppose what I was trying to say in my quote was that because as you say there are still discepancies, broadly speaking nothing much has changed since B.M's original observations about the species in 1982

[David Nicholson]

Lovely stuff Tony, I was going to tell you which I liked best but I just can't decide on one, they are lovely examples.

[mark smyth]

I would love to see a photo of C. biflorus crewii up close. It's a good looking Crocus

[ian mcenery]

Lovely shots as usual Tony. Particularly nice to see the crewii as I have just acquired the (and sown) seeds from JJA so one day maybe  . How long did they take for you?