Old Dutch catalogues

[arillady]

In heritage rose research there is hardly any information on the Dutch breeders and nurseries of the 1800s early 1900s.
This could also apply to bulbs and other plants offered back then.
Does anyone know the reason apart from the losses from the wars?
There are relatively many old nursery catalogues and references of French, German, UK and USA breeders but why so little of Dutch?
Any ideas?
Pat T

[JPB]

All I can say is that archive  losses during WWII were only minor in our country, if there were losses at all... In contrast, the Berlin Herbarium suffered great losses.

Many years ago, I was not able to find any plant catalogues, except for the Tubbergen one.
Still, I believe that the Dutch were mainly interested in large-scale plant-trading (and making money ...). The dutch buy cheap only and that could be provided best by uniform gardencenters. While plant-enthousiasts lived their lives in obscurity and small clubs that were hard to find. Despite internet, my impression is that the amount of knowledgeable people is still very small here, unfortunately. Especially compared to the UK. Those Dutch who are, mostly hang around on forums like this...

Just my thoughts...
Hans

[arillady]

Hi Hans,
thank you for your thoughts. It intrigues me that no one seems to be able to find any catalogues - they must be held somewhere!
What about the archives of institutions that brought back plants from China etc - they must be somewhere.
Pat T

[Giles]

Dear Pat,
I would try the RHS Lindley Library
They can be contacted via the RHS website  http://www.rhs.org.uk/  follow through the links Learning > Libraries
They have staff who can find anything (anywhere in the world).
They have found (or pointed me to someone who can find) the most obscure items (including collectors lists, seed and nursery catalogues).
Giles

[Maggi Young]

Very sound advice from Giles, there, Pat.

The library and herbarium of the Royal Botanic Gardens Edinburgh  is a tremendous source of information from the old plant hunters, which is hardly surprising when one thinks of the large number of famous British plant hunters that these British institutions should have a grand archive.
I am not sure what the depth of collection of old commercial archive material the RBGE might have though.

[arillady]

Thank you both. I did get photocopies of some great old English plant catalogues from Glasnevin Bot Gdn - rose sections - some were full catalogues but others were just the new rose introductions for certain years. (1800's). The librarian who did it for me did not charge me either for the two packages to Australia. I'm hoping that one day I will win Lotto so I can donate the cost plus some to the Glasnevin Bot Garden. A scanned page of an old catalogue in our local rare publications library costs $5Aust a page!!!! I have also had some cat(alogue)s from RHS one year.
I will keep trying through RHS website and Royal Botanic Gardens Edinburgh when I have a chance
Pat T

[Gerry Webster]

Somewhere there must be an archive of old Dutch bulb catalogues, especially those of  the internationally renowned van Tubergen. In the KAVB perhaps? I've raised this matter before in relation to the origin of the trade form of Crocus medius but with no results.

[Brian Ellis]

It may be a long shot Pat, but it might be worth trying the John Innes Institute Library - I'll send you their email address.  They have a marvellous historical collection running through the first herbals, Redoute's roses (is that right) etc etc and the Library itself has the full run of Gardeners Chronicle, The RHS magazine etc.  Coincidentally Maggi it is their centenary year too.

[Maggi Young]

Coincidentally Maggi it is their centenary year too.

So it is! My goodness, it seems everyone is going to have a birthday next year 

http://www.jic.ac.uk/centenary/

[Lvandelft]

Here I show some pictures of old Dutch catalogue covers.
I've seen many others but they are very likewise over the years.
The one of Messrs. van Tubergen of 1899 is a wholesale catalogue.
E.H. Krelage' wholesale catalogues are a bit different but both
have mostly no inside pictures.
Krelage did have some very old Rose catalogues, but they are only
on microfiche in the library, which need a special machine to
look at.


Krelage cat. cover 1901 back                                                          88 KB   625x800x24b jpeg                 
Krelage cat. cover 1901 Front                                                        133 KB   614x800x24b jpeg                 
Krelage cat. cover 1916                                                              195 KB   616x800x24b jpeg                 
                                                   
Tubergen cat. cover 1899                                                              81 KB   386x800x24b jpeg                 
Tubergen cat. cover 1914                                                             160 KB   581x800x24b jpeg                 
Tubergen cat. cover 1937                                                             224 KB   693x800x24b jpeg                 
Tubergen cat. cover 1940                                                             225 KB   648x800x24b jpeg                 

[Lesley Cox]

What lovely things they are. Real treasures and some over 100 years old now. A real achievment of van Tubergen to put out a catalogue in 1940 with war already gripping Europe tightly.

[Lvandelft]

In heritage rose research there is hardly any information on the Dutch breeders and nurseries of the 1800s early 1900s.
This could also apply to bulbs and other plants offered back then.
Does anyone know the reason apart from the losses from the wars?
There are relatively many old nursery catalogues and references of French, German, UK and USA breeders but why so little of Dutch?
Any ideas?
Pat T

Pat here is probably what you are looking for.
These are lists of roses from a catalogue about 1800.

Cat. Corn. et Jan de Graaff a titel ca. 1800               
Cat. Corn. et Jan de Graaff Rosa pp.  2                     
Cat. Corn. et Jan de Graaff Rosa pp.  3   
Cat. Corn. et Jan de Graaff Rosa pp.  4             

If it's of interest I can show more pages with bulbs etc. from this time.   

[Maggi Young]

Wow, Luit, you have been busy searching for these!

[Lvandelft]

Maggi, let's say it is a matter of digging deep. No problem for an 'old' gardener.

[arillady]

Luit has been sending me personally these scans from old catalogues as he has been finding them. I am glad that he has posted them on this forum for all to have access to. What possibly could I say to express my appreciation except a very hearty THANK YOU. Looks like you might be getting addicted to seeking out old references Luit - it can be addictive. Well it does have a lot to do with plants after all.
These scans are invaluble to the ASI and also to Brent C Dickerson in his old rose research - the de Graaff catalogue  especially. What year is it Luit?