Sternbergia 2009

[Gerdk]

Anthony,
It is also documentated from Karpathos!

Gerry,
I know of this paper but I hesitate to call all these Sternbergias
'lutea' because they are distinctly different.
What names should be used to distinguish them from eachother?

Gerd 

[Gerry Webster]

Gerry,
I know of this paper but I hesitate to call all these Sternbergias
'lutea' because they are distinctly different.
What names should be used to distinguish them from eachother?

Gerd  

Well, since many gardeners have little interest in botanical distinctions I suppose they can continue using the existing names for the time being &, of course, a number of forms in cultivation already have cultivar names. In the case of those that don't I suppose  one could use something along the lines of: Sternbergia lutea (= "S. greuteriana") or  "Sternbergia greuteriana" (= S. lutea).

Addition - I suppose one could also use geographical origin to distinguish them: 'Corfu Form', 'Cretan Form' & so on.

[Anthony Darby]

Anthony,
It is also documentated from Karpathos!


Gerd 

I've just checked one of my pots. It is labled 'PC'. I seem to remember his supply came from Karpothos?

[Melvyn Jope]

I have occasionally encountered Sternbergia sicula in Crete and the Peloponnese that have more than the usual number of petals and on one occasion saw a plant in the Peloponnese that was a 'double'. Since I was given this one, which was found in the Kotsifou Gorge many years ago, it has always  produced seven or eight petals.

[Hans A.]

  - Very fine S. sicula!

[Ragged Robin]

Really stunning - not a plant that I have eve seen on offer commercially but would love to grow it 

[Rodger Whitlock]

I hesitate to call all these Sternbergias 'lutea' because they are distinctly different. What names should be used to distinguish them from each other?

If you accept that these "species" are conspecific, Sternbergia greuteriana would become Sternbergia lutea Greuteriana Group, and S. sicula would become S. lutea Sicula Group. This is how Daphne retusa is treated - it's conspecific with Daphne tangutica so technically is called Dephne tangutica Retusa Group.

Just how a group name (a horticultural category, not a botanical one) is published validly, I don't know. Perhaps someone here is sufficiently familiar with the code for horticultural nomenclature to tell us?

Cultivar names are subordinate to Group names, so you might have Sternbergia lutea Sicula Group 'Gerd's Delight'. (Using a possessive form like that may contravene the rules, however.)

Incidentally, if you peer closely at the rules regarding cultivar names, it's clear that they were devised by people speaking languages with a clear distinction between nouns (or substantives) and adjectives. I think it would be amusing to assign cultivar names using languages that take a different cut on things. Some North American Indian languages, for example, have single words where in Indo-European languages you'd have a complete sentence. Thus you could have a cultivar name with the meaning "This flower shines like the sun in the field and amazes the plant collectors." In honor of the recently passed International Pirate Talk Day, hardy-har-har, m'lads!

[Gerry Webster]

I hesitate to call all these Sternbergias 'lutea' because they are distinctly different. What names should be used to distinguish them from each other?

Just how a group name (a horticultural category, not a botanical one) is published validly, I don't know. Perhaps someone here is sufficiently familiar with the code for horticultural nomenclature to tell us?

Rodger - In order to gain familiarity with the horticultural code one has to part with money. By contrast the botanical code is available on-line & free. This  tells us something (though I'm not sure what).

[Anthony Darby]

It tells us that we pay for the name Gerry.

[Anthony Darby]

Speaking of which, here is a lovely clump of Sternbergia sicula from Ian Young #2 (in front is one of my greuteriana with a faded flower, and S. greuteriana from PC ex Karpathos. I'm blowed if I can tell the difference!

[Gerry Webster]

Speaking of which, here is a lovely clump of Sternbergia sicula from Ian Young (in front is one of my greuteriana with a faded flower, and S. greuteriana from PC ex Karpathos. I'm blowed if I can tell the difference!

Exactly!

The point  has been made in earlier posts (last year?) on Sternbergia in Crete.

Addition: It was 2007 in a post by Kees Jan -
http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1026.0

[Ragged Robin]

Speaking of which, here is a lovely clump of Sternbergia sicula from Ian Young

So there is hope - can you grow them out of doors in Scotland Anthony?  A happy looking group

[Anthony Darby]

Speaking of which, here is a lovely clump of Sternbergia sicula from Ian Young

So there is hope - can you grow them out of doors in Scotland Anthony?  A happy looking group

I've tried and failed many times Robin.

[pehe]

Gerry, thank you for the photos of virused lutea.
Here are some of mine Sternbergia in flower.

1. St. greuteriana from PC (I refuse to call it LUTEA as it is so different)
2. The same two days earlier
3. St. lutea from Villa Carlotta in Italy
4. St. lutea close up
5. St. sicula 'Dodona Gold'

By the way, my St. clusiana's have been eaten by some Narcissus fly grubs , and I think some of my lutea clumps have been visited by this nasty fly too . Have any of you experience with Narcissus fly and Sternbergia?

Poul

[Anthony Darby]

Here is one I bought as Sternbergia lutea sicula. It is very different from Ian's #2. Poul, your greuteriana from PC has very pointed tepals. I have only once seen what I would regard as a 'classic' example of greuteriana, and it had tiny flowers with rounded tips to the tepals. I have been searching for this form ever since.