Allium 2009

[BULBISSIME]

Hi Stephen, here is an very old pic (slide) from A. narcissiflorum, wild in France, with more flowers than A. insubricum.

[olegKon]

Wow,Mark! I'm not the only onion farmer here

[Janis Ruksans]

Mark,
I'm attaching picture of dwarf beauty from Iran. May be you can identify it?
Janis

[BULBISSIME]

Real beauty indeed Janis !!!

[Janis Ruksans]

Few more unidentified Alliums from Iran.
WHIR-034 and WHIR-048 seem to be identical, both has smooth leaves.
WHIR-031 by flowers seem to be same, but as you can see on picture leaves are very densely haired. All three are medium high with large flowerheads.
WHIR-s.n. - is dwarf but with large flowerhead sitting between leaves .
Janis

[Paul T]

Gorgeous, Janis.

[Stephenb]

The two species, Allium insubricum and narcissiflorum, are nearly identical, the major difference being that while the umbels are pendant or nodding in both species, they remain pendant in A. insubricum, but become erect when going to seed in A. narcissiflorum.  There are other minor differences cited, but the nodding vs. erect characteristic seems the easiest to watch for.

Thanks - that's what I've heard too, but I've never seen that on the plants I've grown nor in botanical gardens. I imagine the two are often confused.

Wonderful pictures of tauricum, which I've seen before on your web site. I remember seeing your pictures and getting hold of some seed from NARGS about 5 years ago, hoping for something similar. There was some variation as you can see (perhaps they were your seed?)

[Stephenb]

Hi Stephen, here is an very old pic (slide) from A. narcissiflorum, wild in France, with more flowers than A. insubricum.

Thanks, Fred - that one looks quite different. Is the flower colour also lighter on narcissiflorum as in your picture? I also found this picture posted here by Gerd:



I didn't realise it was a native in Western Europe. Where does it grow?

[BULBISSIME]

In France, it grows in somes places in the south, in the mountains.
It's the same colour as in Gerd's pic.

[Regelian]

Has anyone tried crossing these species? With the often present fertility barriers in the genus, should they prove interfertile, these may well be better considered sub-species.  Such a fine difference alone does not seem tenable to seperation as distinct species.  Both are European, with A. insubricum being more northerly (Alps) and apparently connected to mountains rather than lowlands.

Mind you, so much about this genus I do not know, I just find there are an awful lot of extremely similar Alliums parading about with their own species epiphet.  Sounds more like the result of non-coordinated research over the last century (or more).

[Carlo]

Hey Mark...glad to have you with us!

[dominique]

Mark, I am glag too to have you in the forum. Thank for the pics. Janis too
Dom

[TheOnionMan]

Hey Mark...glad to have you with us!

Carlo, Dom, Janis, and others... thanks for the welcome.  This looks like a great forum.  I have some information or clues on the Allium IDs above, will respond later on tonight, I have to go out for the day.

Mark McDonough
Massachusetts, near the New Hampshire border, USDA Zone 5
antennaria@charter.net

[Lesley Cox]

Mark and Stephen, thanks so much for the notes and pictures. I was told insubricum was similar to narcissiflorum. I have that from seed but not flowered yet and nor has the insubricum. Definitely something to look forward to.

I mentioned above that A. kutzianum was fragrant. Has anyone else noticed that? The foliage when crushed or injured is onion-like of course but the flowers are scented of lily-of-the-valley, not so strong as that but very pleasant indeed. Now you've mentioned Mt Ida Mark, that name rings a faint bell in my memory. I suppose I still have the field notes somewhere but let's face it, it was 43 years ago!

[Roma]

This is what I have as Allium insubricum, grown from seed a few years ago.