Allium 2009

[Maggi Young]

Thank you,  Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Arnis Seisums sent me 3 collected forms of Allium karataviense, all very different, two of which approach ssp. henrikii... sort of.  It seems that karataviense is wildly variable... just look at these three.  Here is the collection info, I'll see if in my notes I can correlate which collection belongs to which picture.  Regrettably, the aforementioned super wet spring here 4 years ago, did these forms in.  I'm particularly sorry to have lost the deep rosy-red one on short stems.
1. S. Tajikistan, W part of Darvas m. range, nr. village Lol
2. Uzbekistan, Tschatkal range, vicinity 127 km from Taschkent to Kokand, AR7A 00-34 (or 37)
3. Uzbekistan, C. part of Kurama range, valley against Angren town, SAVV 95-25

Alliums usually improve much by size under cultivation and many start to increase by splitting.

Sample #1 from S. Tajikistan is unknown to me, I didn't grow it.

Sample #2 from Tschatkal range is collected during our common trip - correct abbreviation for our common CA trips is ARJA - Ar-nis Ja-nis, first two ciphers mean year, second two is aquisition number. Correct number is 0034. It was collected at Karanchitogai, and it is medium sized population.

Sample #3 from Kurama is collected by S-eisums A-rnis & V-iktor V-oronin in 1995, I had leg problems (strong pain in knees) and couldn't walk in mountains this year, so was forced to return flight ticket. It is the best red colored form of typical karataviense. It is offered in my catalogue as 'RED GIANT'. In cultivation it can reach gigantic size - in spring 2005 the leaves were as large as two A-4 format pages! Well reproduce itself from seeds.

I only once met in wild form with larger and even darker, sumething purple-red flowers - at Chasavlisai not very far from Taschkent (ARJA-0073).

We collected several red karatavienses but difference between subsp. typica in wild and subsp. henrikii in wild is just in the length of flower stalk. Typical karataviense in wild allways has sitting between leaves flowerhead, in subsp. henrikii it is pushed high up. In garden stalks sometimes are longer but never so long as in henrikii.
Janis

[TheOnionMan]

Thanks Janis,

Excellent information.  I'd like to see more and more collected forms become available in the future.  Do you know the origins of 'Ivory Queen'?  It's such a bright clean white, the foliage also very silvery and light color without any of the typical purple pigmentation. 

Doing some browsing, here are some photo links to a Russian site showing even more diversity of Allium karataviense:

Tall red robust A. karataviense
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/36974.html
Flowering plants. Tashkent region., G. Gazalkent, in culture.

Monster A. karataviense seed head, in situ in Southern Kazakhstan
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/4097.html
Compound fruits (diameter about 10 cm). Southern Kazakhstan, Mount Karakus. May
(notice the spiders)

Allium karataviense foliage, strongly acuminate red-lined leaves
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/3358.html
The plant on the scree, the eastern slope of the dry valley. Tien Shan Mts.
Zhetyzhol. 23/04/2006

Allium karataviense seed heads, in situ.
http://www.plantarium.ru/page/image/id/3382.html
Fruiting plants. Southern Kazakhstan, Mount Karakus. May 7, 2007

[Onion]

Good question about the bark mulch.  Not my first choice, it was an inexpersive act of desperation two years ago when my garden was being featured on a PBS (Public Broadcasting System) TV show, and I had to act quick to clean up the garden and make it presentable.  I had a pile of well-composted bark mulch at hand.  Previously, where I hadn't used any mulch at all, some parts of the garden were lost after being utterly taken over by weeds.  Until my recent unemployment, I was away from my yard from 6:45 AM until ~8:00 PM each day, virtually no time to garden and do things right.  

[/quote]

Mark,

thanks for these information. I ask because I want to build a little rock garden / bulb bed with mostly bulbs (alliums) at a south faced place. 
Is it better to use bark mulch for the species with a rhizome? Because they need a summer humidity in the soil.

[Janis Ruksans]

Thanks Janis,

Excellent information.  I'd like to see more and more collected forms become available in the future.  Do you know the origins of 'Ivory Queen'?  It's such a bright clean white, the foliage also very silvery and light color without any of the typical purple pigmentation. 

Ivory Queen is raised in Holland but I don't remember breeders name. It is clone well splitting and setting seeds but seedlings don't repeat parent plant. Some are white, but not so good combination of white flowers and light soft green seed capsules. OF COURSE - I GOT SEEDS FROM OPEN POLLINATED PLANTS growing all karataviense stocks side by side, they are blooming in different times but some flowers overlaps, so it isn't correct experimental result.
Janis

[LucS]

Here are some photos of an Allium I grew from seed, took 7 years to flower, flowered in 2008 but didn't flower in 2009.  It's a beauty to be sure.  I lost the label for the plant (crows pull them out), but as best I could tell from the keys and looking at photos, it looked very similar to a photograph in Janis' Buried Treasures book of Allium elburzense.  It appears that my plant is not elburzense, but perhaps closer to A. ellisii.  The first 3 photos show the plant at peak flowering, the 4th photo shows the inflorescence at late anthesis.

The first picture shows the plant that I grow as allium ellisii. It is seed-raised from the old PF2571 collection.
The secound picture is an allium sp. close to allium ellisii that was raised from wild collected seed (KV100).
Can someone confirm this ID ? 

[TheOnionMan]

I want to build a little rock garden / bulb bed with mostly bulbs (alliums) at a south faced place. 
Is it better to use bark mulch for the species with a rhizome? Because they need a summer humidity in the soil.

Hi Uli, in general, I would recommend a gravel mulch; better looking and for certain allium or bulb species, provides better drainage at the crown.  John Lonsdale at Edgewood Gardens (http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/) used a brown crushed stone mulch, even in his woodland gardens, to great effect; the brown color more harmonious than a lifeless gray mulch.  Many of the rhizomatous allium are as tough as nails, fairly drought resistant too, and don't necessarily need a mulch, but the primary reason I use mulch is to keep weeds down.  Now, for some of the more moisture loving Chinese treasures, like Allium mairei and A. beesianum, they really dislike dryness, so for such species, a nice bark mulch is beneficial.  I find that the shredded bark mulches decomposes and in a year or two can be mixed in with the soil to enrich it.

[TheOnionMan]

The first picture shows the plant that I grow as allium ellisii. It is seed-raised from the old PF2571 collection.
The secound picture is an allium sp. close to allium ellisii that was raised from wild collected seed (KV100).
Can someone confirm this ID ? 

Wow!  Those are drop-dead gorgeous! Thanks for treating our eyes Luc!  It seems that one needs to be an in-the-field-allium-taxonomist these days to really know what these things are.  You saw my comments from Dr. Reinhard Fritsch who believes my plant is probably close to A. ellisii, but not exactly like ellisii.  I've also been in discussion with Kurt Vickery in England (he's the "KV" in the collection number on the second plant).  He too is revisiting the idea, that maybe these plants are close to A. ellisii.  The second plant looks more like my plant, than the first one from a Paul Furse collection ID'd as A. ellisii.  In the first one, the foliage is very different than mine, green and more linear.  As Dr. Fritsch suggests, my plants (and the KV plant) resemble something growing at the Botanic Garden in Tehran, but it's wild origins are unknown.

By the way, for those of you interested, Kurt Vickery does put out a small seed list of bulbous plants (really choice stuff), including a fair number of Acanthoprasum alliums.  Email him at kurt@kvphoto.demon.co.uk and ask for his seed lists.  He might be close to being sold out for the season, but you never know.

[Maggi Young]

Mark, you may be sure that Kurt's list has been mentioned here before!

I'm enjoying these onions..... variable as they are..... I'm wondering if , over the holiday season, we ought to have a new thread to list and show plants, of any kind, that are blissfully regular in their habits and appearance?  What's the betting no-one would be interested? !!

[TheOnionMan]

And now for something completely different.

A few years ago american Allium cernuum & stellatum started spontaneously hybridizing with species like A. nutans, senescens, rubens, angulosum, and possibly others, although senescens/nutans seems to be the major influence.  The hybrids are intermediate, the typical open evenly spaced heads of A. cernuum (usually with about 30 florets per head) give way to extremely dense heads of bloom with buds (as many as 200) crammed tightly together.  The foliage too, starts looking more like senescens or nutans, becoming leafier, often glaucous and slightly twisting.  The stems, for some reason, become very strong, thickened and ridged, often squarish in cross-section, and rather tall and slightly contorted.

Here is a a cernuum x senescens hybrid selection I named Allium 'Green Eyes'.  The extra large green ovaries are visually obvious (thus the name selection), having the tell-tale signature crests of cernuum.  In most years the flowers are white, tinged slightly pink.  In 2009 they showed a stronger pink blush to the flowers, perhaps because of the exceptionally cool May-June months in 2009.  Here are several photos taken in the latter part of July 2008 & 2009.  FYI, I do plan on releasing this one.

[Janis Ruksans]

The first picture shows the plant that I grow as allium ellisii. It is seed-raised from the old PF2571 collection.
The secound picture is an allium sp. close to allium ellisii that was raised from wild collected seed (KV100).
Can someone confirm this ID ? 

Allium ellisii was described by two bulbs grown in Gothenburg Botanical Garden under number PF-2591. Problem is that Paul Furse under that number listed a member of Cruciferae and he supposed that may be correct number could be 2571 from Elburz mountains. But specimen of 2571 was regarded by Wendelbo as A. derderianum. By Wendelbo A. ellisii is close to A. bodeanum and it really looks so. Of course some botanists tend to join bodeanum and christophii as one species and in this case christophii must be renamed as bodeanum.
I'm attaching two pictures of ellisii - plants originate directly from original stock used for description of ellisii. Pity, I don't remember how long is flower stem in my ellisii and on picture I can't see it.

I would like to know from where exactly comes KV-100. By picture it looks very similar to ellisii. You can reply to my private e-mail janis.bulb@hawk.lv

Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Another beautiful Allium from Iran - Allium monophyllum collected in NE Iran on Kurk e Sorkh ridge, before pass at 1795 m and on the pass at 1900 m. First picture from wild, second in my collection.
Outside now is below minus 20 C and watching those pictures I remember hot of Iran.
Janis

[Janis Ruksans]

Another unnamed Allium from Iran WHIR-158. 3 pictures from wild, the fourth from cultivation. On label is written shelkovnikovii, but it is mistake. True shelkovnikovii is on picture with aquisition number WHIR-152.
Janis

[Onion]

Hi Uli, many of the rhizomatous allium are as tough as nails, fairly drought resistant too, and don't necessarily need a mulch, but the primary reason I use mulch is to keep weeds down.  Now, for some of the more moisture loving Chinese treasures, like Allium mairei and A. beesianum, they really dislike dryness, so for such species, a nice bark mulch is beneficial.  I find that the shredded bark mulches decomposes and in a year or two can be mixed in with the soil to enrich it.
[/quote]

Mark,

this are the informations you never read in books  
But this wonderful forum is a source of expert knowledge you can't pay for.

[Kristl Walek]

Could anyone venture a guess on the identify of the posted species --- from wild sources ex Kirgizstan