Galanthus woronowii variations

[Mariette]

Pale variants are quite frequently found among mixtures of G. woronowii, whereas ´Elizabeth Harrison´is an outstanding yellow clone, I think.

[Edgar Wills]

Out of interest can someone explain the differences between an G Woronowii Elizabeth Harrison thats not showing its full yellowness and a Woronowii Pale Form ? I have never seen either in the flesh and info on woronowii types seems hard to find.

In fact this thread is one of the only things that comes up in a google search on Woronowii Pale Form.

That's an interesting question actually. I bought 'Elizabeth Harrison' from Paul Barney of Edulis nursery (see image). He said he was always disappointed by the flower because it seems not completely yellow to him in real life.

I didn't think much of it untill I read the North Green snowdrop catalogue, which says at the end of the their sales pitch for Elizabeth Harrison: "We offer the good yellow clone........"

Could it be that there are two clones in circulation? One nice and yellow, and one more lime-ish?

[scatigaz]

     I am currently selling a Woronwii pale form on ebay and it is almost yellow. The colour on the photograph is a true representation. I bought ten plants about four years ago and they certainly were not as yellow as they have been for the last two years. I don't know why this is, maybe they have just settled down. Any thoughts?

[deee]

Are you liliacgary ?  if so your pale is looking extremely yellow to me !!

From the pictures i wouldnt know that it wasnt Elizabeth Harrison hence i was wondering what other defining features separate the two.

Also i wondered if the Woronowii yellows were affected by soil type and sun quantities like many of the other species yellows?

[scatigaz]

Yes that's me and have to agree it looks very yellow. I couldn't tell you the difference between this and EH as I have never seen EH except for photos. When I first bought the plant it was more a pale lime ovary and inner mark but has gradually become yellower each year. My soil is acidic and it  grows in dappled shade. Certainly more shade than sun. Don't know if this helps.

[deee]

Hi Gary, ive bought form you on several occasions over the last couple of years and always been satisfied.

So probably the acidic soil helps accentuate the yellowness like with many of the other yellows - thats interesting.

[Alan_b]

If you find a clump of near-identical looking snowdrops it is impossible to know if they are a group of sibling seedlings or if the clump has developed from a single original by natural division.  My understanding is that 'Elizabeth Harrison' came from a clump so it is possible the originals were not all the same clone.

Most people who sell snowdrops commercially bulk-up their stock by chipping as this generally achieves a more rapid rate of increase than by natural division.  It is known that chips don't always come true to their parent; ipocs in particular are known for this with the bulbs resulting from some chips losing their markings.  If the chipping-induced mutation is a major one then the "bad" chips can be weeded out, provided the grower is scrupulous to flower the chipped bulb before selling it on.  But if the change were a minor one like the quality of yellowness then it would probably pass undetected.

Joe Sharman, a maestro of the yellow snowdrop, consistently reports that yellows grown on his soil often appear green.  So what is in your soil must make a difference to the quality of the yellow.

Another famous yellow snowdrop is 'Ecusson D'or' and I have heard the same story about that one, namely that there are good and bad forms in circulation.  But I would be willing to bet an 'Elizabeth Harrison' or an 'Ecussion D'or' (neither of which I actually own, by the way) that nobody has ever done a side-by-side trial of allegedly good and bad forms.

[scatigaz]

Hi  Deee, thanks for the comments. It could well be the acid soil that makes it more yellow. As someone has already commented, maybe we see the yellows differently. I see the Woronwii that i am selling not as clear yellow as the photos of EH. I see it as a very pale lime going towards yellow.

[Mariette]

     I am currently selling a Woronwii pale form on ebay and it is almost yellow. The colour on the photograph is a true representation. I bought ten plants about four years ago and they certainly were not as yellow as they have been for the last two years. I don't know why this is, maybe they have just settled down. Any thoughts?

In my garden and green-house, the same variety or clone doesn´t perform the same way every year. The yellowness of ovary and marks is obviously influenced by the amount of sunlight enjoyed while leaves and buds develop. Carolyn Walker pointed out that the yellows do look much more yellow in North America, where they enjoy stronger sunlight, than she has seen them in Europe.

[Tony Willis]

I saw the pot of Elizabeth Harrison when it was exhibited at Dunblane and they certainly looked to be a clump of identical flowers.
A picture of one of my Elizabeth Harrison attached

[Alan_b]

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

I saw the pot of Elizabeth Harrison when it was exhibited at Dunblane and they certainly looked to be a clump of identical flowers.

Ian Christie had the original clump from the lady herself, Elizabeth Harrison, as I understand it.  I don't know how long afterwards he first exhibited it but if he was prudent then what went on show would not have been his entire stock.

Here is a pot of 'Elizabeth Harrison' floating in mid-air at the RHS London Show last February.

To my eyes that is a very poor yellow indeed, particularly on the ovaries/receptacles.

(Edited to show correct photo).    

[Shauney]

I saw the pot of Elizabeth Harrison when it was exhibited at Dunblane and they certainly looked to be a clump of identical flowers.

I don't grow either of these but but to my eyes Tony I'd have said that was more a lime green going on yellow! And the picture Alan posted to me looks even more green!
Of course different cameras and light could be a big factor!
If the colours I'm seeing are a good representation then I'd be somewhat disappointed! I have certainly found wild forms more yellow than Alan's picture and more on par with the colour of Tony's.
When the snow melts and if they are flowering i will take some pics.

[Maggi Young]

Here is a pot of 'Elizabeth Harrison' floating in mid-air at the RHS London Show last February.
(Attachment Link)
To my eyes that is a very poor yellow indeed, particularly on the ovaries/receptacles.

A very poor example!

[deee]

so far it appears like you could pick up/find a pale form in a bulk purchase of woronwii , grow it well in slightly acid soil in strong sunlight and end up with a more yellow looking Wornowii than some EH.

If most of the other identifying features are the same / similar enough then how would you tell the difference or buy/sell correctly.

Surely there must be identifying features to distance the two -- none of the few books i have / or internet searches even state 'pale form' exists.

Or is Elizabeth Harrison in theory just a strong clone from the wild pale form ?

[Maggi Young]

There may be other woronowii showing similar  characteristics to 'Elizabeth Harrison' - but only  those plants directly from the original  plants are actually  'Elizabeth Harrison' regardless of how yellow they may be.
The same applies to all other snowdrops - they may resemble a named  form, but if they are not  physically derived from that form then they are not entitled to that that name.