Galanthus woronowii variations

[deee]

Thankyou Maggie , and i understand what you are saying.

Im just trying to clarify what the differences are between EH and pale form, and so far colour has been the only mentioned difference which appears to be inaccurate or 'manipulable' through growing conditions.

[Leena]

In my garden and green-house, the same variety or clone doesn´t perform the same way every year. The yellowness of ovary and marks is obviously influenced by the amount of sunlight enjoyed while leaves and buds develop. Carolyn Walker pointed out that the yellows do look much more yellow in North America, where they enjoy stronger sunlight, than she has seen them in Europe.

This is an interesting discussion. I don't have EH or any other yellow woronowii, but all yellow nivalis or plicatus I have are good yellow, just like in the pictures. However, many snowdrops which show green shade in the outer petals in pictures, perform not so well here for me. For instance 'Kildare' (from a reliable source) shows hardly any green, the same is with 'Green Light' and even 'Rosemary Burnham' is not as green as I've seen in pictures. Many times it is colder here when snowdrops flower than in more south, maybe it is that, or the fact that my soil is acidic.

[Alan_b]

Leena, I'm sorry to read that 'Green Light' is not performing for you; I feel personally responsible for this one.  Can you post a photograph?  'Green Light' should always have bright green leaves, unlike a normal nivalis.  In my experience the outer petals almost always have green tips; I think I once observed a counterexample but that is once in 15 years of growing a good few.    However the amount of green on the tip can vary; it is sometimes only small and may require close examination to see. 

[Alan_b]

There may be other woronowii showing similar  characteristics to 'Elizabeth Harrison' - but only  those plants directly from the original  plants are actually  'Elizabeth Harrison' regardless of how yellow they may be.
The same applies to all other snowdrops - they may resemble a named  form, but if they are not  physically derived from that form then they are not entitled to that that name.

This is absolutely correct but a point I tried to make earlier is that it is possible that a snowdrop physically derived from one form may mutate into a different form.  This phenomenon is well-known in some other bulbs such as hyacinths (which have a much longer history of active cultivation).  To quote from https://oldhousegardens.com/HyacinthHistory

On rare occasions sporting does occur and a mutation of a variety worthy of cultivation will appear. It may change from a single to a double as happened with ‘Hollyhock’, a sport of ‘Tubergen’s Scarlet’ (1920) itself a sport of the single ‘Distinction’ (1880), . . . or it may change its color completely. . . .

If hyacinths can undergo a complete colour change then there must be a theoretical possibility that there is a mutant form of 'Elizabeth Harrison' that is less yellow than the original.

[rob krejzl]

If hyacinths can undergo a complete colour change then there must be a theoretical possibility that there is a mutant form of 'Elizabeth Harrison' that is less yellow than the original.

With the chances of seeing a somatic mutation increased given how much twin scaling goes on.

[Leena]

Leena, I'm sorry to read that 'Green Light' is not performing for you; I feel personally responsible for this one.  Can you post a photograph?  'Green Light' should always have bright green leaves, unlike a normal nivalis.  In my experience the outer petals almost always have green tips; I think I once observed a counterexample but that is once in 15 years of growing a good few.    However the amount of green on the tip can vary; it is sometimes only small and may require close examination to see.

Alan, don't be sorry  . I am very pleased to have it and it's leaves are bright green, not like any other G.nivalis I have! It is just that the flowers don't show green in the outers, and as it is the same with some other greens here, it could be the climate or soil which affects it, or that is what I was thinking, in light of what was discussed about yellows in this thread.
Here is the picture of it last spring, and it is growing well as you can see.

[Alan_b]

How curious, Leena.  Here's a picture I took today of a little clump that I planted near the door.  I under-exposed the picture so that the petals and any markings on them were clearly visible.

[Leena]

Thanks for the picture, Alan. I planted them so that there were not other snowdrops close, so that they couldn't be mixed up with anything. Here there is still about 50cm snow, but 'Green Light' is always coming up in the snow as soon as it melts.
Unlike my G.woronowii, which is one of the late ones to come up in late April.

[Alan_b]

I found 'Green Light' growing amongst a huge swathe of ordinary nivalis.  I think I only spotted it because it was earlier than the most of its fellows, the leaves were more developed and therefore easier to see.

[Shauney]

I saw the pot of Elizabeth Harrison when it was exhibited at Dunblane and they certainly looked to be a clump of identical flowers.

I don't grow either of these but but to my eyes Tony I'd have said that was more a lime green going on yellow! And the picture Alan posted to me looks even more green!
Of course different cameras and light could be a big factor!
If the colours I'm seeing are a good representation then I'd be somewhat disappointed! I have certainly found wild forms more yellow than Alan's picture and more on par with the colour of Tony's.
When the snow melts and if they are flowering i will take some pics.

Here are some pics of the yellow worronowii I have. The ovary is green but the inner mark is yellow and my soil is alkaline. As an experiment and if I remember...I'll split when dormant and plant half into some acidic soil and see if there is any difference and report my findings next year.

 edit by maggi to rotate  photos

[deee]

Shaun -- sounds like a good experiment and ill be doing similar next year hopefully with 2 diff EH and Pale Form.

Just be carefull how acidic you make the soil -- better to verge on the 'gentle' side, to be safe.

[PhilG]

Let's see if this works for me now 

A bit too early to say it's a 'variation'. But I thought some of you would be interested to see it anyway.
A G. woronowii I found in a local garden centre.

Two flowers coming from the one pedicel.
I'm obviously hoping it will prove stable, but won't be surprised if it isn't. Worth the little risk regardelss.
So here's hoping (fingers and everything else crossed)

[deee]

i think bulk buying of elwesii and woronowii types is a really affordable way of exploring the huge diversity of snowdrops.

Not that its been mentioned here but someone posted a picture of what they claim ( and appears to be ) a true wild yellow elwesii on facebook recently. Found in a 1000 bulk buy order - as far as im aware with my limited knowledge -- that would be one of the greatest finds of recent years !

Prices of snowdrops has become a bit mad -- i think its important for the general enthusiast to have a cost effective way of entering and enjoying that world and keeping that enthusiasm and interest growing for future generations.

[David Nicholson]

..........Prices of snowdrops has become a bit mad -- i think its important for the general enthusiast to have a cost effective way of entering and enjoying that world and keeping that enthusiasm and interest growing for future generations.

Here Here, and I speak as one who has never paid more that £10 for one bulb of whatever species and never will!

[Alan_b]

A G. woronowii I found in a local garden centre.

Two flowers coming from the one pedicel.

You have two flowers fused at the ovary/receptacle.  Some snowdrops, notably one called 'Mrs Thompson', do this sort of thing regularly although with variations on the theme.  I have an unnamed snowdrop where about one flower in one hundred will be like this.  Or it may be a one-off, never to be repeated.  But certainly worth a punt at garden centre prices, as deee says.