Narcissus March 2007

[Maggi Young]

I should have said the photos of Brian's seedling is mine and not from Daffnet.

I knew that, it is one of those you posted the other day after you visited Brian.

As some of you will know I got a major telling off off forum but lots of lurkers on Daffnet came out in support

Why, don't the Daffnet folks want their awards publicised and do they not want the growers to get wider recognition?

[Lesley Cox]

Paddy, I'm sure your `Jenny' isn't `Jenny.' As Anne says, it should be tallish and much whiter and is very elegant, not rather chunky as your version is. A little bit (though not entirely) like `Dove Wings' and probably around 15" (45cms) in height. Nor is it particularly early.

[Maggi Young]

From the RHS daffodil register: Jenny
Fl. 90 mm wide; perianth segments ovate, blunt, slightly mucronate, reflexed, a little twisted and with margins incurved, smooth, overlapping one-third; the inner segments only very slightly mucronate, more strongly twisted; corona cylindrical, lightly ribbed, opening pale yellow (4C or 4D), becoming white, mouth more heavily ribbed and a little flared, loosely frilled, rim crenate and minutely dentate. Scented but unpleasant.

[mark smyth]

I dared suggest the miniature booklet becomes a "proper" book taking advantage of the digital age

[Maggi Young]

suggest the miniature booklet becomes a "proper" book taking advantage of the digital age

Nothing too dreadful in that, was there? It is clear that anything published before the current availability of digital photo printing and produced with an eye to canny usage of a group's resources, as I suspect was the case here, will appear less than ideal today. This doesn't stop the booklet being a most valuable resource in itself, merely that now, more could be done.  Perhaps you were less than tactful in your wording, Mark, and so upset the daffodil cart? Folks get very protective over the results of their hard labour, you know, and who can blame 'em?

[annew]

For Jenny, see http://daffseek.org/query-detail.php?value1=Jenny&lastpage=1

[Paddy Tobin]

Lesley, Maggi, Anne,

Certainly my plant which I posted as 'Jenny' is decidedly yellow in trumpet while the photographs on daffseek show a clearly whitish trumpet.

The fact that the trumpet, of  my plant, fades from the yellowish colour to a creamy white is not a help in clear identification. At the end of its flowering season my  plant looks quite like the daffseek Jenny.

I think I shall just have to enjoy it as a nice daffodil without a name for the future.

Paddy

[Paddy Tobin]

Re my  posting earlier of N. bulbocodium 'Lee Martin' and N. obesus Reply No 117: I would welcome comment on both of these - do they look like the real thing? These are both new in flower for me and I could not comment on their authenticity.

Paddy

[mark smyth]

Paddy your Lee Martin looks more like the obesus I saw at Brian Duncans last weekend. No photo. It was a case of soo many daffs so little time

Here's a wisp of Snipe.

At snowdrop time there is always much discussion about Mitzy and Snipe ie which is which. Mitzy left and Snipe

[David Nicholson]

Lesley, Maggi, Anne,

Certainly my plant which I posted as 'Jenny' is decidedly yellow in trumpet while the photographs on daffseek show a clearly whitish trumpet.

The fact that the trumpet, of  my plant, fades from the yellowish colour to a creamy white is not a help in clear identification. At the end of its flowering season my  plant looks quite like the daffseek Jenny.

I think I shall just have to enjoy it as a nice daffodil without a name for the future.

Paddy

Paddy and all,

since I started this ball running by asking for an ID for my plant that I had lost the label for (subsequently I found the packet and the packet says the bulbs were Jenny) I have to agree with Paddy in that my plant is also "decidedly yellow in trumpet" and as they age the flowers turn whiter. The average height of mine are 8-10 inches although the odd one may just about reach a foot (sorry about the "old money" measurements but as far as possible I avoid all use of EEC inflicted measurements-I still order things in pounds and ounces too-you are allowed to do these thing as you age, I think!!) I will repeat the pictures I originally posted which were taken about a week ago, and when I am able to bend down without swearing I will take another picture of the ageing flower.

Whilst I'm feeling grouchy I have just been looking at Daffnet (as a way of perhaps learning more about Narcissus) and read through the List joining instructions. I notice that you are given a whole range of Languages to choose from to receive messages in one of which is English (USA), I looked in vain for English (UK). It was ours before you claimed and abused it!!!!!

[Lesley Cox]

Paddy I would have some doubts about your N. bulbocodium v. obesus. I'm sure there is some variation but in all plants I've seen including my own, the foliage is quite prostrate and snaky while the very large flower is short stemmed and, as the name suggests, very wide or fat. It's possible that if yours was grown from seed there could be another bulbocodium form included in the parentage. Here's mine.

[David Shaw]

The 'Bulb Exchange' at discussion weekends is a great source of interesting bulbs. Last year I got really lucky and found these two narcissie donated by the same generous person. The donor left a message on the ackage to conact him for more info on Queen of Spain but although I know his name and I think he visits the forum I have not been able to get in touch. I would like to know more and my e-mail is avaiable on the forum.
If they come up in the order I anticipate they are
Queen of Spain (reflexed petals)
Douglas Bank

[Paddy Tobin]

Hi Lesley,

I've been scrutinising my Narcissus obesus with a copy of John Blanchard's 'Narcissus' in hand and find the following: the foliage is prostrate on the compost surface. John Blanchard says that 'the leaves are prostrate, or arch over towards the ground after rising only a short way above it.' This amount tallies with N. obesus at any rate. He also notes that the flowers are 'horizontal or ascending' The flower is very definitely upward facing - I actually wondered if they had been grown in congested conditions before I purchased them recently. He describes the corona as being 'slightly incurved at margin', which mine is.

However, the flower stem is certainly taller than he describes, 15 rather than 10cm. He describes the corona as 'deeper yellow than the petals'. I couldn't see any noticable difference in mine.

In conclusion, I see certain of the traits of N. obesus but see other traits which are not associated with this species.

These bulbs were bought only two weeks ago from nurseryman in England. I think he would be quick to admit that these small bulbs or alpines are not his speciality and that he offers them for sale simply to provide choice on his sales list.

From my point of view, I would simply like to know the accuracy or otherwise of his labelling. N. obesus doesn't strike me as a plant to get greatly excited about, nor did it cost a fortune, so my queries are purely in the interest of accuracy.

What do you think?


Re. N. bulbocodium 'Lee Martin': can anyone tell me of the origins of the plant? It has a good big and widely opening corona which is very attractive. Bought from the same nurseryman mentioned above.

Paddy

[Paddy Tobin]

David,

Isn't N. 'Queen of Spain' very beautiful!
Lovely long trumpet.

Paddy

[Maggi Young]

Paddy, re your N. Lee Martin, Lee and his wife grow many fine show plants and their form of Narcissus bulbocdium is one they have won a Farrer Medal with ( maybe more than once) I would say it looks very much like the smaller flowered of the two in your picture. The one with the really huge hoop, bowl-type flower is something other! Really nice and fat, worth bulking up, in my opinion.  The Martin's bulbocodium is a good regular sized, increasing form, not markedly different from the type, as far as I can see. It is just a really great growing show plant!

Re; Queen of Spain,
 see the old forum for lots of chat about this variety. Somewhat confused history and there are those that would say that David's plant was  'Englander'. Another of those plants which has so confused a past that it is nigh impossible to be definitive about it... super little plant though, David. I reckon Q of S to be a bit bigger, but, hey, who am I to say!