My edible "alpines"

[cohan]

First off is Mountain Sorrel (Oxyria digyna), also known as Alpine Mountiansorrel (North America),  It is found in damp places throughout, along rivers and associated with seabird cliffs in the lowlands.

this is interesting, i'll have to watch for plants/seeds--i'd especially like to find a far north or high alpine form for a really compact plant..
my reference says it is found in alberta, but they show it as a very narrow strip along the south west--meaning pretty high altitudes, i guess

[gote]

Stephen,
Who said the oil is edible??
I read the quotation in the Taylor book where it says that the properties of the oil are unknown.
I tried to find out and after years, I got the answer that in Sikkim the oils was used for medical purposes to help with problems with the limbs.
I cannot be 100% sure about the identification but since several papaveraceae contain potent alkaloids including the morphia group it seems reasonable.
Meconopsis quintuplinervia is quoted as used in Tibetan medicine and definitely contains an alkaloid of the morphia group.
( 6-methoxy-17-methyl-2, 3-[methylenebis (oxy)]-morphin-5-en-7-one )
You should perhaps be glad that you did not get a lot of oil.
Göte

[Stephenb]

Göte

You're quite right of course to warn of the possible hazards of using plants in the Papaveraceae for food and I've added a little warning in my text and a correction to make it clear that I haven't actually eaten them.

Nevertheless, Papaver rhoeas leaves are commonly used in, for example, Italy (I've seen them for sale at  the market in Venice) and I guess most of us have eaten Opium poppy seed, which are also pressed for their oil (Poppyseed Oil). There are also numerous older references to other species being used for food in various ways; e.g.,  P. nudicaule (in Arctic North America) and P. orientale (in Turkey and Armenia - see Useful Plants of East Anatolia, 1991).

The reference to Meconopsis (napaulensis) seed used for an edible oil seems to stem from a Japanese book on edible plants (by Tanaka) in 1976, but I haven't managed to get a copy to check if it has an original reference. Other works on the world's edible plants (Cornucopia II and pfaf.org) list M. napaulensis referring to Tanaka (which could of course just be repeating an error?). However, my other reference to the seeds of M. grandis being roasted and pickled by the Sherpas (and Tamangs) in the mountainous areas of Nepal comes from the authorative work Plants and People of Nepal by Manandhar from 2002. Although also covering traditional medicinal use of plants, Manandhar doesn't give any medicinal uses of Meconopsis, perhaps surprisingly so for such a distinctive plant.

Nevertheless, let me stress, this shouldn't be seen as a recommendation to start eating your Meconopsis.... I didn't really think you would...

[gote]

Stephen,
Far too often we run into the problem that people refer to the work of others so the same quotation appears in may places.
I recall an international congress where Mr X gave figures for a material property that were half of those given by others including me. I had not measured myself but quoted original measurements by Mr A.
I asked Mr X about it and he said that he had quoted professor Y . I obtained a copy of Professor Y's publication and found that he was merely quoting the measurements published by Mr A.
However, Professor Y did not understand Swedish so he misunderstood Mr A's publication.

Do you have more details about Tanaka's publication? If at all possible, I would like to try to look deeper into it since Meconopsis is one of my hobby horses..
The poppy you show in the picture is not napaulensis but seems to be one of the two forms of betonicifolia. Taylor refers to the very close relative grandis. Because it is close I would have assumed the oil to have similar properties.   
Meconopsis is deer proof. I would be most reluctant to eat any plant the deers dislike so I endorse your non-recommendation.
Interesting topic really
Göte.
 

[Stephenb]

 


Tanaka, T. 1976. Tanaka's Cyclopaedia of Edible Plants of the World. Keigaku Publishing

Yes, I know the Meconopsis isn't napaulensis (never had much success with the latter, not even surviving one winter from various attempts). It was seed propagated from  M. betonicifolia Baileyi..... I also had grandis on the same bed (died after about 6 years).

[Stephenb]

Your unknown looks rather different from senescens in my eyes. Could it be a hybrid with one of the more commonly cultivated ones like A porrum. If (and I do not know) A.porrum were tetraploid and senescens were diploid, a cross could give an infertile triploid form intermediate between the two.
Unfortunately i know nothing about old cultivated onions. This is all a wild suggestion.
Göte
 

Thanks by the way for this. I sent this also to Mark McDonough in the US and he sent an initial reply a few days ago. His initial impression is that it is a form of senescens (or a hybrid). More later if we get any further.

[Joakim B]

Sthephen very interesting thread
When reading of the sterility of the A. senescens I thought it might be triploid just as Göte sugested.
It may come from a cross beetewen a tetraploid and a diploid cultivar of A. senescens if such exist so it may not need to be a hybrid even it also can be.
Would not the persons in the botanical department in Lund be able to see if it is a triploid or at least that it has more/less cromosome than "standard A. senescens?
Interesting to hear and I also find it very plausable that it came from the east as You suggested. Would not a question (pm) to our Russian members be appropriate? They seem to have an interest in Allium but might not have seen this thread (yet).

All the best and hope to read more about this
Joakim

[Joakim B]

The deers generally avoid strong flavored plants and even herbal plants to a high degree so their liking or not of a plant is not a conclusive evidence. At least ours seem to avoid strong smelled plants so I hope they do not read this and start to eat of our oregano and such.
Kind regards
Joakim

[Onion]

Stephen
I read this thread with intrest. My favourite bulbs are the Alliaceae.
Do you now      http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/Internet .
This Institute has travelled to the Eastern bloc in the '70 and '80 in the last century, with the task to collect edible plants (culture-forms and wild species).

[Lori S.]

Any guesses as to the identity of the second alpine Polygonaceae which I'll post about next? People living in the  Norwegian mountains have survived famine years thanks to the knowledge of this plant’s edibility!

Polygonum vivipara?  If so, another circumpolar species that occurs in the mountains here too!

(Hi! New here, but by way of introduction, I'll explain that I have trouble resisting resisting plant quizzes... saw an opportunity to burst in!  Nice to meet you all!
Lori)

[Stephenb]

Sthephen very interesting thread
When reading of the sterility of the A. senescens I thought it might be triploid just as Göte sugested.
It may come from a cross beetewen a tetraploid and a diploid cultivar of A. senescens if such exist so it may not need to be a hybrid even it also can be.
Would not the persons in the botanical department in Lund be able to see if it is a triploid or at least that it has more/less cromosome than "standard A. senescens?
Interesting to hear and I also find it very plausable that it came from the east as You suggested. Would not a question (pm) to our Russian members be appropriate? They seem to have an interest in Allium but might not have seen this thread (yet).

All the best and hope to read more about this
Joakim

A man from Lund, I see (at least part-time)!  Interesting suggestion about the tetraploid x diploid cultivar. I've no idea if such exists either. Anyway, I'll collect all the suggestions and pass on to Lund - would be good to solve the mystery after so long.....

Is there a way of pm'ing our Russian members exclusively?

[Maggi Young]

Is there a way of pm'ing our Russian members exclusively?

Not easily, Stephen , I'm afraid. Since so many folk do not make their locations known and their email address need not necessarily denote a Russian origin, it is hard to pinpoint exactly .... I will send you a list of those I know.

[Stephenb]

Stephen
I read this thread with intrest. My favourite bulbs are the Alliaceae.
Do you now      http://www.ipk-gatersleben.de/Internet .
This Institute has travelled to the Eastern bloc in the '70 and '80 in the last century, with the task to collect edible plants (culture-forms and wild species).

Hi Onion,

There was little doubt of where you're interest lies! Send me a PM if you are perhaps interested in trading seed of Allium - I have seed of about 50 varieties.

Yes, I know of Gatersleben, but haven't been in touch with them. Do you know someone there specialising on Allium? It would be a good idea to see if they have seen this plant before. Thanks for the reminder!

Stephen

[Stephenb]

Any guesses as to the identity of the second alpine Polygonaceae which I'll post about next? People living in the  Norwegian mountains have survived famine years thanks to the knowledge of this plant’s edibility!

Polygonum vivipara?  If so, another circumpolar species that occurs in the mountains here too!

(Hi! New here, but by way of introduction, I'll explain that I have trouble resisting resisting plant quizzes... saw an opportunity to burst in!  Nice to meet you all!
Lori)

Congratulations, Lori, you win our little competition! What a way to enter the forum too, beating the combined knowledge base represented here! Impressive!

Welcome!

[Stephenb]

Polygonum viviparum (Alpine Bistort) is another common wild plant here in Norway that I have in the past harvested from the wild, but when circumstances dictated less time to foraging (= children), I introduced it to my garden where it thrives and provides me with a useful crop each year.



As with Mountain Sorrel, this plant is circumpolar with a very similar range, including Northern Britain. In Norway, it is very common particular in the mountains, but is also found in the lowlands.

Typical habitat in mountain grassland (here growing next to a Norwegian walking cabin, possibly also on the roof):
 


This picture is taken in front of the cabin, seen growing here with flowering Alpine Lady’s Mantle, Alchemilla alpina:



When my kids were smaller they would enjoy eating the bulbils when we were out walking. The bulbils often sprout whilst still on the plant:



Norwegian children have also for generations in the past enjoyed the bulbils which they would either just strip off the flower stalks and eat raw (they have a pleasant nutty flavour) or collect them and then eat them cooked up in milk, and sugar, if they had it.

This plant is not very large and can be anything from 5 to 30 cm tall, but almost the whole plant can be used for food. The bulbils form below the usually sterile white or pink flowers (I’ve never seen a seed) and it often has two forms growing side-by-side, with attractive reddish purple and light brown bulbils.




The plant also produces sizeable rhizomes, in good conditions 1-2 cm across.  Knowledge of this plant has played an important part in helping people through famine years and saved many lives in some areas. Both the rhizomes and bulbils are rich in carbohydrates and were either cooked in milk or ground into flour. The bulbil flour was also used in Norwegian flatbread instead of rye. Elsewhere, indigenous people throughout the high arctic circumpolar region used this plant’s rhizomes as a staple food. From Siberia and Alaska comes an interesting harvesting strategy. The local mice store tubers/rhizomes/bulbs of this and other species in special caches for later use in the long hard winter. People would raid the mice stores, usually leaving a few tubers or a fish so that at least some mice would survive.....I wonder what you’d think if your stored sack of potatoes suddenly became a sack of fish?  Poor mice...

I mostly use the bulbils sprinkled on bread and other savoury dishes like quiche. The picture shows Alpine Bistort bulbils (top left) and Opium poppy (first loaf); Caraway and Evening Primrose (Oenothera biennis) and (last loaf) Plantago major and Sesame.



They are easy to collect and can be dried in a sunny windowsill. Incidentally, the plant can be found growing on the peninsular in the background (at sea level) together with other mountain plants such as Purple Saxifrage, the earliest flowering plant in spring, as well as Primula scandinavica etc.)





I believe that with some selection effort, Polygonum viviparum could become a nutritious alternative minor crop for marginal agricultural areas. There is a wide genetic variability in this species, and a larger form, which I haven’t seen (ssp. macounii) is recognised, a robust plant with larger leaves. If anyone has that one, I'd love to hear from you!  

Incidentally, I have another viviparous Polygonum which is altogether larger than viviparum. I thought initially that it was just a larger form of viviparum, but I recently noticed in Flora of China that there is at least one other viviparous species, and it could possibly be Polygonum suffultoides, but I haven’t keyed it out properly yet.  Here it is on the right of the picture with the two colour forms of viviparum. Anyone recognise it?