Trillium 2009

[Regelian]

Stephen, Mike,

based on the key in Trilliums (Case & Case), they would appear to be T. kurabayashii based on leaf form and mottling alone.  The strongest key difference lies with the anthers, which do not have tissues above the anther sacs in T. kurabayashii and T. maculatum.  Of course, T. maculatum is an Eastern species.  Provenance does help!, but T. maculatum tends to have narrower, slightly drooping foliage in any case.

As to the colour variance,  the more I read-up, the more it seems that T. kurabayashii is a new species developed via isolation from an ancient hybrid of what we now recognize as T. chloropetalum giganteum and T. albidum.  This has most likely been previously considered.  Trillium is an evolving genus, as most are.  Without proper cytological evidence, the point is moot.  As we become better and better at cultivating this genus, the garden hybrids will start to take over and pure species will always remain suspect.

I'm thrilled by this genus in any case.

[Ulla Hansson]

I have sown some different Trillium a few years ago. They are in pots, my question is, what time is best to replant them.
They are now in dormancy.
Grateful for answers Ulla

[Rodger Whitlock]

I have sown some different Trillium a few years ago. They are in pots, my question is, what time is best to replant them.
They are now in dormancy.

Do you mean when is the best time to re-pot them, or to plant them out in the garden?

If possible, plant them out: my experience with seedling trilliums is that they will languish for years in a pot, but put them in the ground and a very few years later you will have flowers. Early spring when they are just starting to grow is a good time.

Be careful not to damage the roots. As monocots, trilliums will not proliferate new roots if the growing tips are damaged, unlike dicots where a damaged root will simply send out branching rootlets.

[Ulla Hansson]

Hi Rodger, thanks for your answer. Actually I was going to rep-pot them, but if growth is better in soil, I will plant them out in the garden in spring.
Ulla

[GrahamB]

Hi Jamie - thanks for your response to my post re T maculatum f simulans. You have given me hope. I'll post the pictures of the seedlings in 6-7 years time

[Stephen Vella]

Hi Jamie,

Just going back to T kurabayashii, yes its so close to T chloropetalum and to key it out to anther sacs thats a gardeners nightmare and a botanists joy but if Carl Denton confirms them to be kurabayashii well thats great news and nice to see the variation. Very nice Mike.

Will have to post mine up soon, they are just unfolding their leaves now.
cheers

[Maggi Young]

Folks, please note request posted here:
 http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4116.msg108448#new

Thanks!

[John Aipassa]

Hello Goete,

I have missed this question from you, sorry for that, but I am happy to answer it, no problem.

The erectum seeds were sown in late July, early August in wet weather conditions (our Summer in 2008 was dreadful). Winter started in December with hard freezing weather in January and February this year (minus 15 to 17 degrees Celsius), which is not normal for our winters. The seeds started to appear in April. Maybe the early and fresh sowing, wet summer conditions and cold winter did the trick, but that is only guessing, since not all my pots with erectum seeds germinated the very first spring after sowing.

Kurabayashii is a regular early riser for me. I have several pots emerging from fresh seeds only a year after sowing for several years in a row now.
 
Hope this clears up a little bit, which I doubt regarding the many variables......

Cheers,
John Aipassa
Aalten

Collected some seed today, and planted them. I washed the seed first, then sowed in a leaf compost bed. I will try to keep the spot moist until fall, maybe some will show in the spring? It has taken two springs for me to see seedlings above ground in the past.

If sown fresh (straight from the berry without any treatment), kurabayashii seed gives me the highest chance of germination the very first spring after sowing. This year even erectum seeds decided to appear in the spring after being sown fresh last summer. So, it is possible to have germination the following spring after sowing. Normally it will take two springs though.

Cheers,

When you have this early germination, how long time is it until you get winter conditions after sowing?
Göte

[gote]

Thank you John,
You probably understand my question but in case....
As I understand it:  Trillium seeds go through a first stage of root formation and turning from seed into a micro-rhizome or whatever we call it and then - after a cold period start above ground. If the seed is sown too late, this first stage does not have enough time and thus germination above ground comes year three not year two.
Early August sowing with winter in December would give your seeds two-three months to complete stage one - which makes sense.
Cheers
Göte

 

[Paul T]

Howdy All,

Some of my Trillium albidum seedlings flowering for me this spring.  As you can see, most definitely hybridised with something else.  These were given to me as seedlings from the albidum parent but she did have other Trilliums.  I am guessing qutie a bit of chloropetalum blood in them, and I am stoked as I didn't have this mauvey pink colour in Trillium prior to these flowering.  Cool eh?  

So far Ive had pure white flowers, white with purple throat (as the albidum parent has) and 2 different shades of pinky mauve. 

Please click on the pic for a larger version.

[mark smyth]

Robert Rolfe told us on Saturday Trillium rivale is now Pseudotrillium rivale. The selections with silver veined leaves are now forma reticulatum

[Paul T]

Mark,

The Trillium to Pseudotrillium has been in place for a few years (but I still call them Trillium I must admit ).  The reticulatum makes sense.  I've only ever seen those here on the forums.... didn't even know they existed until I think it was Michael C. who originally posted a pic and knocked my proverbial socks off.

[Rodger Whitlock]

Robert Rolfe told us on Saturday Trillium rivale is now Pseudotrillium rivale. The selections with silver veined leaves are now forma reticulatum

Aha, an evil splitter!

Pseudotrillium I will grudgingly accept, but not forma reticulatum, as silver veined leaves are sporadic in populations of Trillium rivale. It seems to me that honoring some variant with a formal taxonomic designation somehow implies that there are wild populations with the character and other populations without it.

At one time, Romanian botanists were naming every little variation they found but at least they had the gumption to use the taxonomic category lusus, meaning sport or freak (the latter usually in the phrase lusus naturae). Lusus is the lowest level in the taxonomic hierarchy and may be deprecated these days.

All of which raises two questions: first, who is to say that the type specimen of Trillium rivale did not have silver-veined leaves? Further, what does the botanical description of Trillium rivale say?  Does anyone have access to the original Latin diagnosis? If the type had veined leaves, the rules of botanical nomenclature preclude distinguishing it by an additional epithet; you'd have to name the unmarked leaf specimens forma phyllo-immaculata, or, better lusus p-m.

A second question arises after consulting my Latin dictionary. In Latin, "lusus" means sport in the sense of recreation, not sport in the sense of freak. I suspect that translating lusus naturć as "freak of nature" is incorrect; a better translation would make clear the implicit idea that sports are the result of Ma Nature's playfulness. Perhaps "natural sport" is a better translation. Remember, you read it here first.

[Regelian]

Rodger,

for the record, forma is nowthe lowest demarcation one can attribute to botanic specimens and is nothing more than a distinct variant, often represented by a single plant; ie, a clone.  Although I find the splitters often get a bit overwrought, I find using forma for albinos, aureas, etc. a good thing.  I see it as a bridge from the taxonomist to the gardener. It acknowledges the occurance of a taxus, but doesn't make too much fuss.  Now, if they had named it var. reticulatum, that would have been possibly too much! A variety should be well represented within a population and interbreeds freely with it.  If one were to find wild populations of reticulate plants, versus occaisional single specimens, then variety would be correct.

It is a bit of hair-splitting, but I find the current terms better defined than before.  It is still an unexact science under sciences.

jamie

[gote]

Robert Rolfe told us on Saturday Trillium rivale is now Pseudotrillium rivale. The selections with silver veined leaves are now forma reticulatum

Aha, an evil splitter!

Pseudotrillium I will grudgingly accept, but not forma reticulatum, as silver veined leaves are sporadic in populations of Trillium rivale. It seems to me that honoring some variant with a formal taxonomic designation somehow implies that there are wild populations with the character and other populations without it.

At one time, Romanian botanists were naming every little variation they found but at least they had the gumption to use the taxonomic category lusus, meaning sport or freak (the latter usually in the phrase lusus naturae). Lusus is the lowest level in the taxonomic hierarchy and may be deprecated these days.

All of which raises two questions: first, who is to say that the type specimen of Trillium rivale did not have silver-veined leaves? Further, what does the botanical description of Trillium rivale say?  Does anyone have access to the original Latin diagnosis? If the type had veined leaves, the rules of botanical nomenclature preclude distinguishing it by an additional epithet; you'd have to name the unmarked leaf specimens forma phyllo-immaculata, or, better lusus p-m.

A second question arises after consulting my Latin dictionary. In Latin, "lusus" means sport in the sense of recreation, not sport in the sense of freak. I suspect that translating lusus naturć as "freak of nature" is incorrect; a better translation would make clear the implicit idea that sports are the result of Ma Nature's playfulness. Perhaps "natural sport" is a better translation. Remember, you read it here first.

I have always believed that lusus naturae meant nature's joke somehow connecting it to Ludere = play. Homo ludens = the playing man. It is incorporated into English in 'ludicrous'
Botany is not always that serious. Linné gave the name Brovallia to a genus in "honour" of a certain bishop because it had a creeping habit  

'Sport' is supposed to come from French 'desporter' meaning originally carry away, divert. which is precisely what a sport of a plant does.

Cheers
Göte

PS
I fully support Jamie's views.