Erythronium 2009

[Diane Whitehead]

(keep)  the distinctiveness of each species .... rather than all muddled up.

I make sure to keep each species growing as far away from any other as possible
in my garden.

Then I pollinate them, but I haven't produced many seeds.  My records go back to
1995. One cross produced two pods, but I have no record of germination.

I don't know whether it is my ineptness (though I have produced many hybrids of
other plants) or whether erythroniums prefer sticking to their own kind.

[t00lie]

[quote author=Guff

Picked up three more forms Lilac Wonder, Purple King, and Japonicum. Does the Japonicum cross with the dens-canis forms?  I want to try growing from seed next summer, and don't want to try crossing them if it doesn't, thanks.


[/quote]
===============================================================================
Guff /Diane i have no idea whether they do.
 
Ian Young in his ,(old),bulb log --number 7/08 shows a number of  Erythronium hybrids and makes an interesting comment  "I have to admit that my attempts to make specific crosses have failed and all the best erythronium hybrids that I have raised to date have been open pollinated."

Here is a pic sent to me of a hybrid that flowered this spring in NZ.(My plant did not flower).

Cheers Dave.

[Lesley Cox]

I can't agree that "muddled up" is a good thing at all. One has only to see the angst that is on every crocus poster's brow about possible hybridization. It is important for both horticultural and scientific reasons to keep species pure and while hybrids are good in the garden, surely they should only be for some benefit to the gardener, in terms of new form or colours, robustness and disease rersistence or whatever.

Dave beat me to it but I was going to say that the Youngs have many hybrids but that they seem to be spontaneous in the garden rather then planned. One or two have appeared here too, like this lovely one, between revolutum and (possibly) 'White Beauty.'

[Diane Whitehead]

The hybrids I keep attempting to make are with E. tuolumnense which
is from California.  It is unusual among North American west-coast
species in that it forms offsets.  Most of our species produce one bulb
from one seed and do not offset at all.

The yellow-flowered tuolumnense has been crossed with white-flowered
species (californicum and oregonum ) to produce yellow or white-flowered
hybrids like Pagoda, Kondo, and Citronella which are readily available
in the trade here.  The hybrids are very vigourous - almost cabbagey
in some cases.

I love hendersonii, with its lavender flowers with a dark centre.  It is not
vigourous here - I have planted it several times and feel lucky to have had
one survive.

So, it is the one I keep trying to cross, hoping to get a strong hybrid with
its colouring.  I hope that the cross will result in just moderate offsetting so
that I don't produce Pagoda-like cabbages.

[Guff]

Lesley, your wording not mine "muddled" You show a seedling, now is that a "muddled"? I have to tell you, I'm not sure what muddled means. When I wrote "muddled is a good thing", I meant each seedling is going to be different and unique and whos knows whats going to show up. Then I had thought maybe you meant poor colors/markings seedlings=Muddled?

Anyways I'm glad everyone has their opinion, whether they agree or not. Where would Daylilies, Hellebores and such be if it wasn't for people hybridizing with them?

[Lesley Cox]

Guff I think I've got my topics mixed up somehow as I was sure the "muddled" applied to having various species all growing together in the hope they would produce hybrids, and like Diane, I prefer to keep species separate if possible. But I also thought the word was being applied to Galanthus somewhere, so obviously it is I, myself, who am thoroughly muddled. As I sometimes have to say to people recently, disregard everything you've heard me say.

[Ragged Robin]

Ruapuna Dawn is a really pretty Erythronium, Lesley, a happy spontaneous result 

[WimB]

Is E. 'Ruapuna Dawn' the same as E. 'Kinfauns Pink'

[Luc Gilgemyn]

I don't think so Wim !
I believe Ruapuna Dawn is a hybrid that originated in NZ (or Ozz), whereas "Kingfauns Pink" was raised by Susan Band at Pitcairn nurseries.

[Diane Whitehead]

I am unfamiliar with these hybrids.  I assume they make offsets, or
they wouldn't be available for sale.  Do you know the parentage?

[Rodger Whitlock]

A word of caution about running out and assigning a cultivar name to any chance hybrid erythronium that pops up in the garden: if it doesn't multiply vegetatively (by offsets) with reasonable ease, don't name it. All you will be doing is cluttering up reference materials with names of plants that are unobtainable, needlessly tantalizing your fellow gardeners.

'Ruapuna Dawn', for example, is very similar to any number of other chance and natural hybrids of E. revolutum. I won't say the woods here are full of similar-looking plants, but they're certainly no rarity if you know where to look.

Now others may disagree with me on this point of being sparing in assigning cultivar names, but one has to look at a larger picture than merely "ooooooh, lookie what I got!"

In point of fact, a more valuable contribution to the world of erythronium culture is any form, hybrid or pure species, that multiplies freely by offsets. In the last 30 years or so, I've spent a lot of time searching stands of both E. revolutum and E. oregonum looking for multiplying forms. No luck with E.o., but once with E.r. Unfortunately my high moral character¹ got the better of me and since it was in a protected ecological reserve, I left it alone. A week later, my moral character had ebbed, I went back intending to remove a few offsets around the edge of the clump - and found it gone, dug up with the excavation carefully disguised with moss. Sob.

A note on vegetative propagation of erythroniums: Richard Fraser, the proprietor of Fraser's Thimble Farms on , tells me that he has had success by simply breaking a mature erythronium bulb in pieces and replanting them. Young offsets form at the edges of the wounds. I haven't tried this myself, but Richard is a skilled propagator and knows whereof he speaketh.

¹ For some values of "high", "moral", and "character".

[Diane Whitehead]

The bulbs are usually rather narrow and tall, so would you break them in pieces
that way - like chopping a carrot?

[WimB]

I bought 'Kinfauns pink' last year which is a cross between Erythronium revolutum and 'White beauty'.
I had never heard about 'Ruapuna Dawn' before which looks very nice but quite similar to 'Kinfaun's pink' although 'Kinfaun's pink' might have white anthers of which I'm not sure and I haven't got any pictures from its flowers of last year.

[Susan Band]

Erythronium Kinfauns Pink is a hybrid with revolutum being the seed parent and probably White Beauty being the other parent. It is as easy to grow as White Beauty bulking up as quickly and so gives people who struggle to grow revolutum a chance to grow a pink Erythronium. Lots of hybrid Erythroniums occur in gardens where many Erythronium are grown, if you are selling them there has to be a name given, naturally you pick the best out of the bunch to propergate up. Wheather they are named clones or hybrids in you own garden they add greatly to any woodland type situation.
I have recently selected out a couple of other hybrids from a dark revolutum parent and am waiting to see if they are as quick to bulk up. Remember there is no benefit for the nursery if they can't bulk up quickly enough for sale.
Susan

[Diane Whitehead]

Have you managed any hybrids with hendersonii, Susan?