Epimedium - various threads gathered together here

[Maggi Young]

At 4 feet tall Epimedium elatum has been noted as the largest plant in the genus but E. wushanense will give it a run for the money. There is a plant on the market called E. wushanense Caramel which is more likely a natural hybrid. The clones I have are variable, one also shows some winter mottling to the leaves, a few of the open pollinated seedlings of this plant have jaw dropping winter foliage. Darrel Probst collected another as yet un-named new species he simply calls the "The Giant". This plant has very limp flower scapes, perhaps for scrambling through shrubs. The scapes are indeterminate and continue growing and flowering through the season, Darrell reports these will extend to 8 feet long.

Holy moly! I haven't got space for brutes like that! Those are TRIFFIDS!!

[fleurbleue]

The Epimedium World is wonderful Tony   and yours are very desirable  

[fleurbleue]

And what a very hot post Maggi  

[johnw]

Keep this mind folks: If you want to rouse Philip from double dormancy just mention the E word.

More please Mr. McD.

Let's see if this shot of his E. latisepalum sparks a response.

johnw

[Philip MacDougall]

John, I completely forgot about that pic. Will look through and try to post a couple more. Philip

[Paul T]

Fantastic pics everyone.  I have a reasonable collection of them here.... thankfully there are a couple of people who have imported (and are still importing) plants into Australia.  I too would love to try seed though, to see what hybrids may appear.  Well worth the try I would imagine.  I've never seen seed on any of mine, but have never particularly looked for them either I must admit.

Great discussion!!

[TheOnionMan]

Mark, I happen to have a 2008 catalogue from Garden Vision, there were 10 pages of colour photos to drool over.
Unfortunately, the 125$ phyto certificate and 80$ basic shipping is outside my budget.
One can always dream of winning the lottery 

I mentioned that phyto and shipping were expensive ;-)

Maybe worth it if a few people nearby pooled an order together.  But, the plants are expensive too.  No need to go for the newest (current year) introductions, as they'll be very expensive, go for some of those introduced earlier.  They're all good, so many of the lesser expensive grandiflorums and "x youngianums" are completely charming.  I was fortunate to get my E. wushanense "Spiny-leaf form" at a local NARGS chapter plant auction, where Darrell donated the plant... I won the bid at under $40, where he listed the plant for $150 (but it came down in price in 2009 to $125, which is still expensive).  But everything is outside my budget now, as I find myself unemployed... the one thing I looked forward to every year was placing a $350 order or so, and picking it up at one of his two "open nursery weekends" in May.  I'm still working on winning the lottery myself!

[TheOnionMan]

  Epimediums are my new plant du jour. I had the good luck to order 5 plants of Epimedium latisepalum from Chen Yi 4 years ago. I recieved pencil lead thin 2 inch rhizomes, I had no expectations they  would survive. But Epimediums are amoung the toughest of plants. They turned out to be something that keys out near to E. wushanense and are spectacular. At 4 feet tall Epimedium elatum has been noted as the largest plant in the genus but E. wushanense will give it a run for the money. There is a plant on the market called E. wushanense Caramel which is more likely a natural hybrid. The clones I have are variable, one also shows some winter mottling to the leaves, a few of the open pollinated seedlings of this plant have jaw dropping winter foliage. Darrel Probst collected another as yet un-named new species he simply calls the "The Giant". This plant has very limp flower scapes, perhaps for scrambling through shrubs. The scapes are indeterminate and continue growing and flowering through the season, Darrell reports these will extend to 8 feet long. I finally cut the still flowering scapes down in Nov., seedlings crosses with E. wushanense have just begun germinating this week.
  Of note more than half of the members of this genus have only been introduced in the last 20 years.

Philip, thanks for the wonderful posting of photos and Epi information.  I have a number of comments which I'll post later tonight... going to take a break and watch some evening TV then come back to SRCG!

[Paul T]

Mark,

You mean that we can leave the computer?  I didn't realise that...... must be why I never seem to get anything else done around this place.    I must try it one of these days. 

[johnw]

Care to comment on the merits of these here:

Epimedium acuminata (Starling)
Epimedium davidii (Heronswood)
Epimedium franchetti (Asiatica but not on their list lately)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'A' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'B' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'C' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium leptorrhizum (Heronswood)
Epimedium pubigerum (Thimble)
Epimedium rubrum  (M. Charlton)
Epimedium wushanense (MacDougall)
Epimedium x perralchicum (dp yellow) (M. Charlton)
Epimedium x versicolor 'Neosulphureum' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium x warleyense 'Ellen Willmot' (VV)
Epimedium x warleyense 'Orangekonigin' (HS)
Epimedium 'Yubae' (Heronswood)

Philip the Heronswood ones are from the trip we took in 1997 - remember the year we bought all the Arisaemas, Arisaema pots that is, later found out the bulbs were apparently not included.  Why I bought Epimediums is beyond me but happy they are here now. May have been recommended by you.   I see E. latisepalum (MacDougall) and E. Brimstone Butterfly (Lost Horizons) are amongst the missing, rats.

johnw

[TheOnionMan]

   Epimediums are my new plant du jour. I had the good luck to order 5 plants of Epimedium latisepalum from Chen Yi 4 years ago. I recieved pencil lead thin 2 inch rhizomes, I had no expectations they  would survive. But Epimediums are amoung the toughest of plants. They turned out to be something that keys out near to E. wushanense and are spectacular. At 4 feet tall Epimedium elatum has been noted as the largest plant in the genus but E. wushanense will give it a run for the money. There is a plant on the market called E. wushanense Caramel which is more likely a natural hybrid. The clones I have are variable, one also shows some winter mottling to the leaves, a few of the open pollinated seedlings of this plant have jaw dropping winter foliage. Darrel Probst collected another as yet un-named new species he simply calls the "The Giant". This plant has very limp flower scapes, perhaps for scrambling through shrubs. The scapes are indeterminate and continue growing and flowering through the season, Darrell reports these will extend to 8 feet long. I finally cut the still flowering scapes down in Nov., seedlings crosses with E. wushanense have just begun germinating this week.
  Of note more than half of the members of this genus have only been introduced in the last 20 years.

Philip, many things to comment on here, thanks so much for sharing your enthusiasm.

1.  Glad you featured fall color on epimediums, particularly evergreen ones, a great asset in the garden.  I plan an exposé to explore not only the fabulous spring color on many eppies, but also the 2nd foliar flush on many, and then the fall/winter color.  It's a genus attribute rarely explored.  Your fall/winter foliar closeups of wushanense progeny show well the potential for diversity and hybridization.

2. Your greenhouse shots of various eppies, particularly wushanense and sp. nov. 'The Giant' are remindful of my memories of the same plant's in Darrell's 100' long greenhouse.  He introduced 'The Giant' in 2007... maybe you had this before the introduction to get such impressive growth on your plants.  Have you been to Darrell's place? It is amazing if you haven't been there before, and certainly worth a trip for any serious Epimediuphile.  Are you doing hybridization in the greenhouse? I am envious of such possibilities as I don't have a greenhouse... all eppies must do it outside here ;-)

3. Regarding E. wushanense clone 4, I actually like the thought of taller forms, with bold flowers standing proud and upright for all to see, as I mentioned the one downside of Darrell's "Shiny-leaved Forms" is that the flowers hang low under the leaves and get splattered with mud.

4. I keep my past Garden Vision Nursery catalogs, but mysteriously I'm missing a couple years. I could be wrong but I thought E. wushanense 'Caramel' was introduced by Darrell, but can't find a reference at the moment. Regardless, it's an awesome development in Epimedium, with such large spidery blooms of rich and inviting caramel color.  Darrell has beds with swathes of hybrid seedlings that simply take your breath away, fabulous colored mottled foliage, and relatively low branching sprays of huge spidery blooms in every shade, from warm caramel browns and tans, brown-pinks, warm pink and purples, rose-yellow combinations, you name it... simply spectacular.

5. You show a photo of an Epimedium x sasakii selection.  I thought it was cool for a few years having some of Darrell's several forms of this plant, with the name being coincidental with the company name where I worked, but now it's a bittersweet after getting laid off after 20+ years service, a reminder that companies don't care about their employees anymore and treat their senior staff as mere disposable commodities.

6. Back to Darrell's sp. nov.'The Giant', looking through my past Garden Vision Nurseries, in 2007 he offered it in his "Expedition Fund" section, where the purchase of a new exciting species also helped fund his expeditions... the cost was $500  (yikes).  Since then, in 2009 catalog, the cost dropped to a mere $300 (yikes again).  Looks like I won't be getting this one anytime soon ;-)

7. I see that many people are still buying from Chen Yi.  It is almost 100% guaranteed that everything they send is indeed from China, but almost 100% guaranteed that everything is misidentified. I have personally had such findings from my single ordering experience from Chen Yi (but heard similar stories from others many times) where all Allium and Fritillaria species I ordered were completely misidentified... not even close.

The world of Epimediums is now ripe for exploitation and development.  On the plus side of things, Epimedium hybrids still look like graceful wild plants, unlike the almost monstrous developments going in such genera as Echinacea right now.  Epimediums have it all, fabulous foliage and beautiful flowers, always looking gradeful and natural. I see one of Darrell's oldest hybrids in your postings, E. x rubrum 'Sweetheart', a cross between E. sempervirens 'Candy Hearts' (fantastic foliage, pallid flowers) and E. alpinum (aggressive spreading species with tiny red/yellow flowers), resulting in an eppie with good foliage indeed but with negligible flowers... I'm still watching the spread on this one. The hybrid is okay overall, but given the newer possibilities with incredible species and cultivars, the concentration should be on really special new plants.  Your wushanense seedlings show such promise.

[TheOnionMan]

Care to comment on the merits of these here:

Epimedium acuminata (Starling)
Epimedium davidii (Heronswood)
Epimedium franchetti (Asiatica but not on their list lately)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'A' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'B' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium grandiflorum 'C' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium leptorrhizum (Heronswood)
Epimedium pubigerum (Thimble)
Epimedium rubrum  (M. Charlton)
Epimedium wushanense (MacDougall)
Epimedium x perralchicum (dp yellow) (M. Charlton)
Epimedium x versicolor 'Neosulphureum' (M. Charlton)
Epimedium x warleyense 'Ellen Willmot' (VV)
Epimedium x warleyense 'Orangekonigin' (HS)
Epimedium 'Yubae' (Heronswood)

Philip the Heronswood ones are from the trip we took in 1997 - remember the year we bought all the Arisaemas, Arisaema pots that is, later found out the bulbs were apparently not included.  Why I bought Epimediums is beyond me but happy they are here now. May have been recommended by you.  I see E. latisepalum (MacDougall) and E. Brimstone Butterfly (Lost Horizons) are amongst the missing, rats.

johnw

John, all are good, although I don't know what E. grandiflorum 'A', 'B', & 'C' refer to. From Darrell Probst's offerings, I grow 48 E. grandiflorum species and cultivars, but of known authenticity.  Do the ABC forms represent hybrids from a person named M.Charlton?

I also don't know the E. x warleyense 'Ellen Willmot' cultivar, can you describe it?  I grow the other two widely grown forms of Epimedium x warleyense.

[TheOnionMan]

Mark,

You mean that we can leave the computer?  I didn't realise that...... must be why I never seem to get anything else done around this place.    I must try it one of these days. 

Yes, but you have to make up for it with extra consecutive SRGC postings, otherwise you lose points.  I'm starting to get worried, I haven't even started to dig in with my other interests, Crocus, Tulipa, Arisaema, etc.  I'll need to stay unemployed just to keep abreast of the developments!   

[TheOnionMan]

I wanted to return to Epimedium 2010 with something more basic. While all these new exotic Chinese Epimediums entice us with spectacularly unusual plant habit, bold evergreen mottled foliage and such, many other species and cultivars are more quiet and subtle, yet still fundamentally beautiful and essential to the garden.

I grow 39 Epimedium x youngianum forms, and love them all.  This group represents hybrids between E. grandiflorum and diphyllum, but one can also assume some of the lines have been blurred in the hybridization process.  They're all charming small clump-forming plants, equally nice for the flowers as the foliage, all suitable to smaller gardens where space is a premium.  Here's a classic example: E. youngianum 'Jenny Wren' taken on May 11, 2007, low and floriferous in bloom with showy bloom above the foliage, and with nice speckled foliage season round.

[Philip MacDougall]

   Now I don't know where to start.
   A lot of comment on the price of Epimediums. I asked our resident expert in tissue propagation here on the west coast why he wasn't doing Epimediums. Dan Heims tells me they are quite doable but slow, so much so that it's just as effective to propagate them with more traditional methods. Some of my seedlings when growing well have bloomed on 2 year old plants. Seeds ripen and disperse rapidly, ants take them immediately because of the fatty deposit each seed carries. They are also ephemeral. They are also not self fertile, many species have been represented by just one clone. These characters probably are a factor in so few species coming into cultivation until recently. Darrell has said all of his collections were of live material, seed was impossible to gather in the wild. I don't think people realize yet how many good introductions we now have available, the traditionally grown Epimediums have been with us for a century or more, great garden plants but people are a little jaded with them. The price of the new ones should come down as more people acquire and propagate them. I won't tell you how much The Giant set me back, my excuse is that I can use it for breeding.
  Mark, I've never been to Garden Visions, I'm envious of your proximity. I kept waiting for them to go on-line with a catalog, it didn't happen, perhaps just as well for my Visa. I will break down this year and order an old fashioned  catalog.