Epimedium - various threads gathered together here

[gerrit]

Bonjour Geoffrey,
Also wellcome to this forum. I am happy, you shared you pictures with us. It is an overwhelming quantity. I simply choose some which like the most beautiful to me. E. "Pink Champage" for instance. Or those fine 2 colors in pink and yellow flowers. #47-50. Do I see parents of E.amber queen? (Mark?)
I want them all!!

Gerrit

[WimB]

Geoffrey,

I've looked at your pictures again and there are some really stunning hybrids there.
If you ever find the time to post some pictures of T. Delabroye's hybrids that would be wonderful. I've only visited his nursery once to buy some of his beautiful Helleborus hybrids but I've never went to see his collection of Epi's. Maybe this year.

Do you have a picture of the leaves of your yellow acuminatum? Like Mark, I've never seen a true yellow acuminatum...but they should exist.

Is your 'Red Beauty' a grandiflorum? I have it here as being a synonym to E. grfl 'Rose Queen' and E. grfl 'Crimson Queen'. What do you think?

Do you have an idea what the parents are of E. 'Pink Champagne'? I know it's a 2007 Probst introduction but that's it.

I've never seen your 'Tojen'/'Togen' (both names can be correct, it depends on the translation into Romanji...it means 'Heavenly place' by the way). The E. 'Togen' which Koen sells has darker flowers, I think. I don't grow this one so I'm not sure.

Like Mark, I would  agree that the Epi in photos 33-38 is a cross between E. acuminatum x dolichostemon. If you look at E. 'Amanagowa' or E. 'Kaguya Hime' which have the same parentage...you can see the resemblance although for me the flowers of your hybrid have a much nicer contrast.

The hybrids I like the most are:

# 46 (the vibrant red and yellow reminds me of a volcano) & # 52 (stunning contrast)
# 63 (a very nice dark/old purple ... like a red wine stain on a white tablecloth)
# 76 your bonbon rose which is wonderful...the name is chosen very aptly...it reminds me of "Turkish delight" (Loukoum in French)

[WimB]

Do I see parents of E.amber queen?

Gerrit

Gerrit,

I thought the parents of E. amber queen were E. flavum and E. wushanense but Geoffrey describes it as a cross between wushanense and wushanense 'Caramel'. So now I'm not so sure any more. Mark? Geoffrey?

[TheOnionMan]

Do I see parents of E.amber queen?

Gerrit

Gerrit,

I thought the parents of E. amber queen were E. flavum and E. wushanense but Geoffrey describes it as a cross between wushanense and wushanense 'Caramel'. So now I'm not so sure any more. Mark? Geoffrey?

I believe 'Amber Queen' involves E. flavum and E. wushanense 'Caramel'. 
http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Plants/Epimedium-Amber-Queen-PP-17197.html

Edrom just lists it as flavum x wushanense; either way, I certainly "see" flavum in that hybrid:
http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-Amber-Queen-20p8981.htm

The JohnJearrard site also lists it simply as flavum x wushanense:
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumamberqueen/epimediumamberqueen.html

[TheOnionMan]

Geoffrey,

Is your 'Red Beauty' a grandiflorum? I have it here as being a synonym to E. grfl 'Rose Queen' and E. grfl 'Crimson Queen'. What do you think?

Some confusion came from early days where people brought back named Japanese cultivars, with the cultivar name written in Japanese characters, so new names where invented in the USA, or in the UK, or both, for such plants. This is the case with the numerous synonyms - 'Rose Queen', 'Sunset', 'Crimson Beauty', and I suspect, 'Red Beauty', all of which are actually the original Japanese named E. grandiflorum 'Yubae'.

Edrom nursery makes it sound like 'Red Beauty' is yet another rename of 'Yubae':
http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-grandiflorum-Red-Beauty-20p8986.htm#details
"This name [Red Beauty] is still allowed although it appears to be a re-name of the japanese cultivar Yubae."

[TheOnionMan]

Geoffrey, I meant to mention two more items:

1.  I really like the hybrids that have a well defined yellow edge to the red cups, #47, and #62.  That coloring seems unique.

2.  I believe your #8 should be listed as E. grandiflorum 'Benichidori' or 'Beni Chidori' (versus "Benishidori"); when I was looking this up, couldn't find it at first, but found it under the different spelling
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumgrandiflorumbenichidori/epimediumgrandiflorumbenichidori.html

============

And now for a parting shot of my frozen Epimediums (sunny today but temperature staying at 23 F (-5 C), a couple views of colorful fall foliage on remaining Epimediums (some I've already sheared off the foliage); many of these will be sheared back shortly unless we get snow.

[WimB]

2.  I believe your #8 should be listed as E. grandiflorum 'Benichidori' or 'Beni Chidori' (versus "Benishidori"); when I was looking this up, couldn't find it at first, but found it under the different spelling
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumgrandiflorumbenichidori/epimediumgrandiflorumbenichidori.html

Or here:

http://www.edrom-nurseries.co.uk/shop/pc/Epimedium-grandiflorum-Benichidori-20p8793.htm#details

Beni Chidori (a thousand red birds)

[Geo F-W]

Well, thanks to all, Mark, Wim, Jamie and Gerrit.

Truely, I'm reading this thread since the beginning (and the bul log of Ian since few years now), I just react now because, with the cold ( -8° here two nights ago) and snow storms, I've a little more free time. I begin to be unhappy in winter and believe me if you want, but sometimes I dream of epimedium ...Plants need to rest too, I know, so I'll just have to grin and bear it, like everyone else...

The amount of photos I presented is overwhelming indeed, I apologize. But you're lucky, I've lost a big part of my photos by formatting my computer this autumn...^^

Mark and Wim, thanks to confirm for my seedling n°33-38. It's close to Epimedium 'Kaguyahime' indeed (I prefer 'Amanogawa' but unfortunately, it blooms early and the flowers are often destroyed by frost, what a pity!)

About Epimediums with flared outer sepals, I don't know well what parent is responsible. I guessed Epimedium dolichostemon to or maybe Epimedium acuminatum?
They're Thierry's hybrids so I'll ask Thierry very soon, and also for parents of 'Pink Champagne' because I don't know either. I'm not helpfull, sorry!.
For those who are interested, I harvest a large quantity of seeds and I have a couple of hundreds of seedlings in nurseries this year.

#69-72 are really amazing! Very very floriferous, very strong, fertile, and, the photo doesn't show it, but they have a beautifull foliage. One of the parent is Epimedium wushanense, the other one, I don't know.
Thierry remains a mystery with its new hybrids that are still under examination in the nursery and not marketable. He works hard and I know that he promises a few surprises for the future. So, when I visit her private greenhouse, I just admire, take pictures, I rarely questioned him about the parentage of his hybrids, sometimes he tells me without being asked, sometimes not, I like that. And I guess myself (??).

About Epimedium #73-74, yes, many leaves are normal, most of them. I think it's a very interessant characteristic and I've never seen this before ( never seen this phenomenon on my 'Brimstone Butterfly'). And I also like the pale and red marginatum foliage, that's interessant. Unfortunately, flowers are really pale and are quite inconspicuous. Again, I don't know the parentage.

About my yellow acuminatum, I have here a creamy form of it (http://www.pepinieredesavettes.com/pepiniere/epimedium-acuminatum-cream-form-,179,theme==0,page==2?noclear). The foliage is nearly similar but the flowers are a little different in the form.
Wim, as I said above, I've lost a big part of my photos, but I can take a picture of the foliage at this time. I recently discovered that a baby Beesia calthifolia had pushed just below and I have to move it

'Buckland Spider' is really a good epimedium, I'm delighted and I'm curious to see this cross with 'La Rocaille'. Strangely, I still don't cultivate it, it's on my wishlist for 2011, Mark your photos convinced me.

And of course, my 'Tojen' is 'Togen'. it has just from Thierry Delabroye so, Wim, I've never seen the Koen's one. I planted it in a sunny bed so maybe there is an impact on flowers's color, I do not know.
And my 'Benishidori' is 'Beni-Chidori', I made a mistake.

The #62 is a young plant, but, besides flowers, I also like its foliage which is similar to Epimedium sp. nova 'Spine Tingler', almost thorny and wavy. But it's higher.

Wim, yes, I know Daniele Monbaliu and I love this woman. She's really nice and friendly, so talented, unfortunately, I can't go to her nursery, which is very simple and welcoming, as often as I would like. Some of my hybrids have just from her, as 'Bieke' (the name of her daughter I think) or 'André Charlier'.
By cons I didn't know she had Epimedium coming from Darrell Probst or then did she just went to visit him recently?
I intend to redo my stock photos at Thierry's nursery this spring so yes, I'll post them here. For now, I have none. Damned computer!
My 'Red Beauty' is a grandiflorum and, I've never seen 'Crimson Queen' or 'Rose Queen' in real but they're really close indeed. I don't see any difference, maybe mine is a little redder...But afterall, Mark is probably right, there may be Yubae. There is so many confusion with hybrids, it's really annoyed.
The #63 is even darker than in the picture, it's very gorgeous!
I have many seedlings of #73, we'll see next year ...

Gerrit, 'Caramel', maybe a parent of 'Amber Queen' (but afterall, Robin White, does he know the parents? I understood it was an accident), is amazing for me, I don't know if you possess it but it's an excellent Epimedium, I prefer it to 'Amber Queen'.

[fleurbleue]

Hello Geoffrey, nice to meet an other Epimedium lover here ! This post becomes more and more interesting 

[TheOnionMan]

Geoffrey, too bad about your computer hard drive failure, it sends chills at the mere thought of losing so much valuable data and photos.  I recommend buying a small external drive, bought mine for $100 several years ago (probably cheaper now), it is 150 Gigabytes, plugs in using a USB cable, couldn't be simpler.  I replicate my 10 years worth of digital photos to a second drive as a backup.

Regarding your unusual leaf Epimedium #73-74, I have not seen one quite as lobed as that, but have seen some Epimediums with enlarged teeth on ends of the leaves, I include two photos on E. grandiflorum f. flavescens #3 from Darrell Probst, which has "trident-tipped" leaves on some of the terminal leaflets.  On E. sempervirens, I often see odd leaf shapes, a couple seedlings of E. sempervirens 'Aurora' show such anomalies, but none quite as well defined as yours.

I may not have been clear about what I trying to say about 'Red Queen' and synonyms. It is probably best to quote from the Garden Vision Epimedium catalog:

E. grandiflorum 'Yubae' (synonyms: 'Crimson', 'Crimson Beauty', 'Rose Queen')
"Often mislabeled as 'Rose Queen', this plant arrived in the west many decades ago, already given the name 'Yubae' in Japan, but with only Japanese characters to go by and no translation it was probably soon given an English cultivar name.  Incidentally, this same plant suffered a third renaming in the U.K. when another plant, 'Tama No Genpei', was going around as 'Rose Queen', so it was re-named 'Crimson Beauty'."
Factoring in what Edrom Nursery says about 'Crimson Beauty', that it is probably 'Yubae', continues the confusion.

E. grandiflorum 'Red Queen', not to be confused with the name 'Red Beauty', is a GIANT plant as far as grandiflorums go, growing 4' across x 30-32" tall (1.3 m x 75-80 cm tall), whereas 'Yubae' & 'Tama No Gempei' are smaller normal sized plants.

Really must get 'Caramel' some time, it's such a beauty.  You mention Darrell's Epimedium sp. nova 'Spine Tingler', another that I must get.  He has rows of hybrids made with this one, the sawtooth narrow shiny leaves are really something!

[gerrit]

Bonjour Geoffrey,
Also wellcome to this forum. I am happy, you shared you pictures with us. It is an overwhelming quantity. I simply choose some which like the most beautiful to me. E. "Pink Champage" for instance. Or those fine 2 colors in pink and yellow flowers. #47-50. Do I see parents of E.amber queen? (Mark?)
I want them all!!

Gerrit



Hello Mark, Wim and Geoffrey

I am misunderstood. I meant to suggest: Parent of this hybrid (47-50) could be, may be E.amber queen. Perhaps a cross with E. "davidii"

Gerrit

[gerrit]

Mark,

You sent us many lovely photos with automn foliage.
You asked for pictures with winterfoliage.
here I post some. As you see, the hard, leather, sawtooth-leaves
survive better in the cold. We had a week with temps far below zero
during the night and -2C at daytime.

Gerrit

[TheOnionMan]

Mark,

You sent us many lovely photos with automn foliage.
You asked for pictures with winterfoliage.
here I post some. As you see, the hard, leather, sawtooth-leaves
survive better in the cold. We had a week with temps far below zero
during the night and -2C at daytime.

Gerrit

Gerrit, thanks for posting these foliage views, so often photos of epimedium concentrate on the flowers only, so it's good to see what these evergreen species look like in foliage.  You have a number of species that I don't have.  Each year I would place an order of about $400 US dollars at Garden Vision Nursery, and while that sounds a lot, when some rare species or newer cultivars cost $30-$40, or more per plant, it adds up so quickly. 

I like the nice drooping or cascading foliage on E. omiense 'Stormcloud' and rounded foliage on 'Akane', two others that I have not yet purchased.  I also like the rounded and "crimped" foliage on 'Amber Queen'.

I had wanted E. acuminatum 'Night Mistress', but the one year it was offered at Garden Vision Nurseries, it could only be purchased through Darrell's "Expedition Fund"; buy a new or rare epimedium for $75, which helps Darrell subsidize his many expeditions to China.  The 2005 Garden Vision catalog (the nursery name at that time) mentions that Darrell has organized and completed 29 expeditions to 15 provinces in China, these expeditions mostly funded by himself. About E. acuminatum 'Night Mistress', Darrell reports he "collected the original plant in November 2000, from a high elevation locale near Nanchuan in Chongqing Municipality after nearly a day's drive along a winding road that led to this site".  Well. we're all glad he went to that extraordinary trouble to find this special variety.

I wish I had bought it then; I have bought a couple items on his "Expedition Fund" in the past, obviously well worth it considering the amount of effort to go find these treasures and bring them back for everyone to enjoy growing.

[TheOnionMan]

About Epimediums with flared outer sepals, I don't know well what parent is responsible. I guessed Epimedium dolichostemon to or maybe Epimedium acuminatum? They're Thierry's hybrids so I'll ask Thierry very soon.

Geoffrey, I was looking at the Epimedium pages at the JohnJearrard web site, and spotted the ascending-outer-sepals characteristic is very strong on E. chlorandrum, it is a lovely species, yet another one I do not grow, see:
http://www.johnjearrard.co.uk/plants/epimedium/epimediumchlorandrum/epimediumchlorandrum.html

[gerrit]

I'll post here some photo's of E."davidii" dwarf form. A natural hybrid from the form. It's my favorite, because of it's dark green foliage and the spectaculair big bright yellow flowers. (big...for an epimedium) She is a slow growing plant. Mine grows for 2 years in a trough as you can see. She is also vulnerable. A tiny stem rises from her soil and carries the hole plant. One slug or a bird and it's the end.

Because I am also growing alpine and rockplants, I'm looking for E dwarf forms. I posses now: E.gr."Nanum" and E.gr."Freya" (syn."Violet Nanum"). Can anybody suggest other E. dwarf forms,up to 20cm high?

Gerrit