Epimedium - various threads gathered together here

[Gabriela]

More mini Epimediums are in need for sure; the mini-grand is very compact, maybe 'Pink Frosting' as a name?

I know about the Frankenepimediums, I think you showed some before. I stay away of versicolor, and in general I keep with the evergreens. At least I get good foliage
For the future I have a vision of an Epimedium with purple/yellow flowers, I may try to hand pollinate acuminatum with lischichenii this year if possible. All is possible with a bit of luck!

[Leena]

Mark, I love your Minigrandi!
Gabriela, your E.lischichenii has a great foliage.

I stay away of versicolor

Silly question, why not versicolor? Is it too big or does not flower well?

[Gabriela]

Silly question, why not versicolor? Is it too big or does not flower well?

I didn't explain the reason Leena. E. x versicolor has nice varieties, and this time I wrote it correctly - it's a hybrid and knowing the parents I don't see it as giving good combinations, flower wise, with the Epimediums I have. It may be just my imagination at work  but in general I think best to use strait species in combinations.

So, this is the reason; when I'll decide to stop sowing Epimedium seeds then for sure I will added to my garden; it's so very useful for dry areas under trees.

[TheOnionMan]

Most E. x versicolor cultivars (grandiflorum x pinnatum ssp. colchicum) are sterile. I must verify this fact this year, particularly with versicolor 'Neosulphureum'. I have wondered about something, if an Epimedium is sterile and makes no viable seed, is the pollen also sterile, I've never heard a definitive response to this question.

I mentioned previously about my Frankenepimedium hybrids of lishihchenii with what I'm sure is pollen parent versicolor 'Neosulphureum', the seedlings were found around a dead lishihchenii plant (died over winter one year after being weakened by terrible drought summer of 2011). Some seedlings look similar to lishihchenii, and other are a dead-ringer for lishihchenii for foliage but with flowers like 'Neosulphureum' jammed on the plant.  I will show a few photos in a future post.

I do love E. x versicolor cultivars, not only are the flowers attractive and of unusual color in some of them, the spring foliage is outstanding, so is the autumn foliage, particularly with versicolor 'Versicolor' and 'Cupreum'.

The newest versicolor entries are Darrell Probst's 'Strawberry Blush' & 'Cherry Tart', a few photos:

1. Epimedium x versicolor 'Cherry Tart', a very bright looking plant. Not as vigorous as 'Strawberry Blush' and I lost 'Cherry Tart' to drought. I have since bought a replacement.

2-5  E. x versicolor 'Strawberry Blush', a vigorous plant that spreads, rich bronze spring foliage, broad overlapping sepals of palest yellow when viewed from above, underneath the sepals are faintly washed in pink stripes, has bright yellow "cup" and short deeper pink spurs.

[Rick R.]

I couldn't say about Epimedium, but there are lots of examples of Lilium hybrids that are sterile (not seed producing) but have fertile pollen, and vice versa.

[TheOnionMan]

I couldn't say about Epimedium, but there are lots of examples of Lilium hybrids that are sterile (not seed producing) but have fertile pollen, and vice versa.

Thanks Rick, good to know that in theory it's possible, and verifiable examples exist in other genera. It would be interesting to do controlled experiments to validate the proposition with Epimedium.

[Gabriela]

Thanks Rick, good to know that in theory it's possible, and verifiable examples exist in other genera. It would be interesting to do controlled experiments to validate the proposition with Epimedium.

You are the best person to do these experiments Mark. It would be good to know indeed if some have fertile pollen.

Regarding E. x versicolor, they are all indeed very beautiful. I had the chance to see D. Probst's 'Cherry Tart' and 'Strawberry Blush' in 'real life' quite a few years ago. I guess they are not that new...
The oldest E. x versicolor cv. 'Versicolor' and 'Cupreum' would be worth pictures shown as well. I regret I don't have any.
I find 'Cupreum' to be especially outstanding; I hope they will continued to be propagated.

[TheOnionMan]

You are the best person to do these experiments Mark. It would be good to know indeed if some have fertile pollen.

Regarding E. x versicolor, they are all indeed very beautiful. I had the chance to see D. Probst's 'Cherry Tart' and 'Strawberry Blush' in 'real life' quite a few years ago. I guess they are not that new...
The oldest E. x versicolor cv. 'Versicolor' and 'Cupreum' would be worth pictures shown as well. I regret I don't have any.
I find 'Cupreum' to be especially outstanding; I hope they will continued to be propagated.

Gabriela, I have good photos of all the versicolor cultivars, I will post some.  I will also show a seedling I selected last year that was E. sempervirens 'Violet Queen' x pinnatum ssp. colchicum, it looks similar to versicolor 'Cupreum' (although I strictly speaking isn't the same cross as versicolor),  but much larger coppery pink flowers, very interesting. 

I probably should have called 'Cherry Tart' and 'Strawberry Blush' "new-ish" (1999 & 2004 respectively), compared to the mid 1800s for the much older cultivars.

I'm thinking I should be able to carry out some testing, build a small open wood frame, put window screen netting on it to keep bees out, and keep some potted control epimediums inside (all the same variety), then do crosses on each caged plant with pollen from an assigned sterile variety.  If seed even gets produced, that would indicate the efficacy of the pollen from a specific sterile plant.

[Gabriela]

I'm thinking I should be able to carry out some testing, build a small open wood frame, put window screen netting on it to keep bees out, and keep some potted control epimediums inside (all the same variety), then do crosses on each caged plant with pollen from an assigned sterile variety.  If seed even gets produced, that would indicate the efficacy of the pollen from a specific sterile plant.

It sounds like a very good plan!

I have a question about hand pollination if you don't mind - I mentioned I got fixated to cross E. lischichenii with E. acuminatum, and I would like to use the lischi as mother plant because it sets
good seeds, plus acuminatum is a smaller plant.
Thing is I cannot figure out how to proceed with the isolation of the lischi flowers; the inflorescences are long and heavy with the flowers; it doesn't seem I could use the organza bags I use for collecting seeds.

Could you advise please how to go about this? This is how my lischi looks, I understand there may be various clones out there.

[Carolyn]

Gabriela,
Perhaps you could enclose the flower heads in a piece of light weight horticultural fleece, tied round the stem with soft twine?

[Gabriela]

Gabriela,
Perhaps you could enclose the flower heads in a piece of light weight horticultural fleece, tied round the stem with soft twine?

Thanks Carolyn, the organza bags are even lighter than the light fleece and they came in bigger sizes as well.
Now that I keep looking at the picture it crossed my mind that I could cut the flower stems in half - is not that I can pollinate that many flowers anyway. Problem is I might need the last flowers from the top, lischi flowers a bit in advance of acuminatum.

[TheOnionMan]

Some thoughts about hybridizing techniques, I'm casual with the approach

1. Depends on whether one wants to make 100% controlled crosses, or merely make a high enough percentage of successful crosses.

2. I find mid-to-late morning best time, pollen is opening but the bees haven't made much impact yet. I pick the flowers off plants I want as pollen parent, pinch back the sepals and petals to leave the stamens sticking out like a paint brush, and apply pollen on the seed parent flowers. Judging from my results, this works just fine, no bagging required unless I want to do a more scientific approach (such as my suggested experiment with pollen on sterile plants)

3. Gabriela, for your plant like your big beautiful lishihchenii, where you don't want to cross each and every flower, what I do is select a particular flowering stem, tag it with a piece of tape and only make crosses on that one flower stem, or two selected stems whatever the case may be.

4. I try to be consistent and as each new flower opens each day, keep up with the task and make crosses, easier now that I'm retired.

[Gabriela]

Thank you very much Mark!

I need to try and control the crosses as much as possible because I don't have the space to raise too many seedlings to see the results.

I'll have to see how the flowering goes this year. I may have to use acuminatum as a mother plant, lischi would provide more pollen flowers for sure. They both have extruding anthers so the task is not very difficult in this regard.
These are the only Epi seeds that I am interested in this season so I'll be concentrating on the task
I'll keep you posted and thanks again.

[Rick R.]

With some (many, most?) genera, a cross of A x B versus B x A usually yield different results.  With Lilium, the pollen donor tends to contribute more of the floral characteristics, while the pod parent tends to contribute more to the progeny's overall plant structure.

[Gabriela]

With some (many, most?) genera, a cross of A x B versus B x A usually yield different results.  With Lilium, the pollen donor tends to contribute more of the floral characteristics, while the pod parent tends to contribute more to the progeny's overall plant structure.

That's a good point Rick. For sure the 'Epimedium man'   can go into more specifics about this.

I'm looking more after flower colours combinations; in any case I'll try to cross both ways.