Arisaema 2009

[galahad]

This has sprung up in my A. flavum spot which it definitely is not.  Can anyone identify?

[Regelian]

I'm certainly no expert, but it looks like a green form of A. erubescens.

Jamie

[Lesley Cox]

Is (or is not) A. erubescens close to or even synonymous with A. consanguineum? I've read that it is then again, read of them as separate species. Any plant I've seen as erubescens looks exactly like consanguineum, including the one above.

[Regelian]

Lesley,

are you confusing A. erubescens with A. consanguineum and A. ciliatum?  The last two are indeed very similar and easily confused, unless you look carefully, with both having dorsal thread-like appendages, while A. erubescens doesn't seem to.  There was a time when A. consanguineum and A. erubescens were considered the same species, until the clear difference in the leaves and flowers was well documented.  The former  has attenuated leaf tips which hang like threads and the latter is typically with a pinky-green flower. The Gusman book seperates all three into species with sup-species for A. consanguineum and A. ciliatum. One can see the very close relationship, which brings one back to 'what is a species'.  The flower galahad pictured is untypical in any case.  It may well be a hybrid.  Hmm, with A. flavum?  Now that would be interesting!

At this time, I have only immature plants of all of these species coming along for comparison.  Some of the finer points of specie identification are still pretty unclear to me.  As you may have guessed, I'm as confused as anyone! .

[galahad]

Hmm..can of worms?  I have 2nd year seedlings of A. erubescens coming along (assuming the seed is correctly A. erubescens)

Whatever it is I like it.

[Lesley Cox]

Jamie, I am frequently, if not continuously, confused so you could well be right. I've certainly read that consanguineum and erubescens are synonymous and the plants I've raised under both names suggests that is so but of course the erubescens may have been wrongly named anyway, by someone as confused as I am. But I believe cliatum to be quite distinct and unlike either of the others. The leaves are smaller overall with fewer leaflets and the plants are shorter by about 20 cms in my garden. And most of all, ciliatum is so beautifuly pin-striped like finest and most elegant suiting material. I think it's my most favourite of all, even including candidissimum.

[WimB]

Jamie, I am frequently, if not continuously, confused so you could well be right. I've certainly read that consanguineum and erubescens are synonymous and the plants I've raised under both names suggests that is so but of course the erubescens may have been wrongly named anyway, by someone as confused as I am. But I believe cliatum to be quite distinct and unlike either of the others. The leaves are smaller overall with fewer leaflets and the plants are shorter by about 20 cms in my garden. And most of all, ciliatum is so beautifuly pin-striped like finest and most elegant suiting material. I think it's my most favourite of all, even including candidissimum.

Yesterday I went to a lecture of Guy Gusman and he spoke briefly about the difference between A. consanguineum and A. erubescens.
Until some years ago most botanists considered them the same species but they are distinct. The first difference is their distribution in the wild. A. erubescens does only grow in Nepal while A. consanguineum has a much greater distribution.
Other differences are that the leaflets lack the long threads which are present in A. consanguineum, the fruiting peduncle is erect while A.consanguineum has a nodding fruiting peduncle and the flower of A. erubescens emerges well before the leaves while the flowers of A. consanguineum emerge while the leaf unfolds

[Paul T]

Worth noting for the Arisaema-philes that Bill in NZ posted a few rather beautiful Arisaema pics in the current Southern Hemisphere flowering now topic (December 09).

He starts with Arisaema candidissimum here ==>http://www.srgc.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4598.msg125359#msg125359
and then continues on the next page with ringens, fargesii and franchetianum.  I thought it was worthwhile letting people who are monitoring this topic know, so they can go and have a look.

[Regelian]

Thanks, Paul,

I would have missed these!

[Paul T]

Happy to help. 

[Regelian]

Wim,

what a treat that lecture must have been.  I wish I had know, it would have been worth the trip (assuming I had time free, of course!)  My Nederlands is a bit rusty, but I could certainly have caught most of it!

[WimB]

Wim,

what a treat that lecture must have been.  I wish I had know, it would have been worth the trip (assuming I had time free, of course!)  My Nederlands is a bit rusty, but I could certainly have caught most of it!

It was really interesting to hear "the Arisaema-master" himself speaking about the plants he fell in love with. His wife was there too and they are really warm people who love to share their knowledge. His lecture was in Walloon Brabant so it was in French.

[Maggi Young]

Wim,

what a treat that lecture must have been.  I wish I had know, it would have been worth the trip (assuming I had time free, of course!)  My Nederlands is a bit rusty, but I could certainly have caught most of it!

It was really interesting to hear "the Arisaema-master" himself speaking about the plants he fell in love with. His wife was there too and they are really warm people who love to share their knowledge. His lecture was in Walloon Brabant so it was in French.

 Both Guy and Liliane Gusman are most charming ..... and give a great Talk in English, too!!  

[Lesley Cox]

Jamie, and others too, it's always worth keeping an eye on the Southern Hemisphere threads. You'll see some things there you won't find growing in the jolly old UK or Europe.

Thanks for that note Wim. It is now plain to me that what I grew from seed (and later bought) as erubescens, were all wrongly named and were consanguineum. I really like the long threads on the leaflets. They so often carry a swaying diamond of water at their ends.

[galahad]

I just noticed there is another of the previously posted Arisaemas flowering in my A. consanguineum patch.  Yes it does have the tendrils on the ends of the leaflets.  You can see in in the background of this pic