Butchering Paris rhizomes!

[Paul T]

Howdy All,

Just in case it is of interest to anyone reading..... last autumn I was having problems with a Paris polyphylla that for the third year running had been damaged when it came into growth, so I decided to do a bit of chopping up of the rhizome as I had heard was useful to multiplying Trilliums.  I took 3 slices off the back of the rhizome, each under 1cm thick (although the end one was rounded so it was thicker than that in the middle), dusted them with flowers of sulphur to help minimise rotting, let them dry out a bit, then carefully put them into a pot of potting mix that I kept on the dry side.  The main part of the rhizome was similarly dusted at the cut surface and eventually planted into it's own pot (where is shot happily in spring and at least got a chance to have it's growing season undamaged this year!  ).  I periodically disturbed the rhizome slices to check on them and found that they all survived and started to produce new growing points on their sides. 

By February I thought they were large enough to photograph so I did so.  Attached is a pic of the 3 slices, clearly showing the new "bud points" emerging.  I would expect that they may perhaps actually shoot this coming spring, but will keep monitoring them to see what happens.  One has a single shoot, the other 2 slices each have twin points.  I would be severely doubting that there would be much in the way of offsetting from the main parent by itself, so it appears that this has been useful for hopefully producing an increase in my Paris rhizomes.

Has anyone else tried this?  Any comments anyone?

By the way.... if the moderators feel this is better suited to being somewhere else, please feel free to move it.  This was the only place I could think of to start this topic, but you're welcome to move it somewhere else if you feel it is better there.  Thanks. 

[Greenmanplants]

Hi Paul,

This is good, I'm sure others have done it successfully as well.....but would be very good to hear how progress continues.
I tried it with P.fargesii although in bigger chunks, and more from the point that it was breaking up.  Unfortunately I think the reason it was breaking up was down to rot having started, and I didn't cut out any soft root...subsequently I lost all of it. So didn't try with any others....you've just encouraged me to have another go.

How moist has your compost been and what sort of mix have you used.  At what stage did you do it...after growth had died down...in full dormancy..just before new growth..in growth???

The same treatment works for Dysosma(Podophyllum) which I have done about this time, just before new growth gets properly away.....I think that, like Trillium, it is a hormone release from the new growth that stops more buds forming...when you remove the hormone source (ie growing points) the plant gets fooled into thinking it has been partly eaten and sends out other smaller shoots to ensure its survival.

Cheers John H

[Paul T]

John,

As far as I know the auxin supression of axillary buds by the main growing point works pretty much the same as apical dominance in unpright plants, it is just that it is horizontal.  I had heard of cutting up being done for Trillium so I thought I would give it a go.  I think that I originally did it late in the growing season, but not when the plant was dormant.  I think at the time I dusted the pieces and put them back into the ground with the original rhizome, only separately potting them after dormancy that winter.  Where it was growing had quite a big of root activity from a large Photinia that overshadows the area (and provides a wonderful microclimate for shade lovers) so I figured that even with regular watering the rhizome pieces wouldn't be wet for very long at all.  It is generally a battle to keep everything watered there, not a battle with overwet.    When I lifted them in winter they were still there and looking fine, although at that point there was no sign of them actually doing anything.  I think it was about 2 months after the surgery.  I potted them into a fairly sandy mix, with a little pocket of sand around each rhizome piece to try to minimise water sitting around it.  I then very rarely watered it, just on occasions to stop it dessicating (I hoped), and put it into my covered shadehouse where it could never get any watering except artificially by me. 

A few months later I couldn't control my curiosity and had to check on them, then finding the first signs of growth points emerging.  That disturbed the pocket of sand, but by then I wasn't nearly as worried about it as I knew that they were doing something.  They're still in the covered shadehouse.  I must check them again soon to see how they're doing.  As soon as I see any sign of root formation I will probably repot the 3 of them into a new sandy mix with some slow release fertiliser available low in the pot so that they can feed.  I am at this stage wondering at what point that is going to happen.... it already seems to be taking such a long time.  It will be worth it in the long run though. 

[Greenmanplants]

Paul,

Tim Lever did the same with his Podophyllums last year and kept them several months in shade before getting root activity....so keep the faith..and let us know how things progress.

Thanks,

[Paul T]

John,

I checked them this morning to see what was happening.  2 of the slices now had 2 inch roots coming off the mini-rhizome growths (both the double growths as it happens), so I have carefully replanted them about an inch below the surface in the pot they were in (I decided not to completely repot them) then given them a sprinkling of slow release bulb food on the surface to filter down to give them some food now.  I hope that they should surface above ground this coming spring by the looks of it.  Here's hoping that they'll survive this intrusion.  This is the last time I will disturb them until they have had a season above ground.

[t00lie]

I haven't quite butchered my Paris ,(yet!!!) ,but thought i'd post here as another possible example of propagating Paris.

Having successfully multiplied trilliums by the following method,(admittedly here in January--- mid summer),i finally got round to 'working' on my Paris polyphylla ssp yunnanensis ?.

Sorry pics taken with a flash as it's a miserable cold wet dark afternoon.

The first pic is of the plant in bloom earlier this year--- then as it is currently.
Pic 3 is of the rhizome exposed .
The final pic shows the 8 small nicks i have just made.

I had meant to take this action a month ago and as it is officially winter here in a couple of days i've made some allowances---ie been careful to only make shallow nicks and will leave the rhizome exposed as is for a week or so before placing gritty mix on top .It will remain undercover for the next 3 months as another precaution to control moisture levels.

As a further experiment i've also made some damage further away ,(than i normally do with Trilliums),from the terminal bud. 

I had been informed a year ago when i received this division that the parent was a good 'doer' .While removing the top half of the potting mix i noticed swelling where i'm sure two buds are just developing.

Fingers crossed.

Cheers dave.

 

 

[Paul T]

Good luck Dave.  I hope yours works as well ,or better, then mine have.  Quite exciting waiting for things to happen, but even more so when they do. 

[t00lie]

Thanks Paul

If it all turns to custard i'm not too worried --i'll just have to be patient that's all ---as this last season was particularly good for Paris germination with 5 different sps ,(including the one above),pushing out a radicle ------cotyledon growth in the spring i hope.

Cheers Dave

[ian mcenery]

Thanks Paul

If it all turns to custard i'm not too worried --i'll just have to be patient that's all ---as this last season was particularly good for Paris germination with 5 different sps ,(including the one above),pushing out a radicle ------cotyledon growth in the spring i hope.

Cheers Dave

Very interesting Dave do keep us posted on the  progress of the patient

[gote]

Just a comment on roots.
The Daiswas do not (yet) survive my winters so I have no experience. The two Paris  (in the narrow meaning of the word) I grow need no encouragement to split.
However, I have noted that those Trilliums I have studied, refuse to send out roots in the wrong season. This is one of the causes of non-appearance. They do not show above ground unless it is spring AND unless they have good roots. They only send out roots at the later part of the growing season when the flower begins to fade and before they go dormant.
If your plants behave in the same way Paul, you will have to wait until the proper time for them to send out roots and when this is accomplished they will send up leaf in the spring.
I assume that this means that decapitating/slicing is best done in the spring so that the new buds are developed and can send out roots when the rooting season comes in order to show above ground the next spring.
I agree with anybody saying that this is an oversimplification - it is but this is what I have observed myself (Mainly on Trillium grandiflorum and its relations).
Please keep us posted Paul. this is very interesting,
Göte
PS
 My limited experience is that if the rhizome is just cut in half, the lower part will form many new buds - perhaps as many as if it had been sliced. I prefer that method since I make myself believe that the wound surface per bud is much lower with less risk of infection. On the other side, I keep all the eggs in the same basket.
Cheers
   

[Paul T]

Göte,

The last time I checked and noted details my slices were producing roots from the growth points, so I expect above ground action this spring (see my 13th April posting).  Fingers crossed and all that.  I'm just happy they didn't all rot, for exactly the reasons you were mentioning about cut surfaces etc.

[t00lie]

==============================================================================
Ok Ian --hopefully i'll be able to report a positive result in the future with no loss of life .

Paul and others

Not sure if you have seen the wonderful web site of Harold Holmes -- great information ,with pics on slicing and dicing Trilliums.

Go to the following 

www.trilliumresearch.org/links/links_species.htm

Click the link and have a look under the 'research' heading

Cheers dave.

[Paul T]

Howdy All,

This week has seen the emergence of the shoots I was hoping for on the slices of Paris rhizome.  So far there is a single shoot from one, and 2 shoots from another.  I have checked and the other piece is still there with it's proto-rhizomes or whatever they are.  I would imagine that they will activate sometime soon as well. So cool to have something above ground now to see.  I'll give them some fertiliser soon to motor them along and try to give them good strong rhizome growth this year.

I've attached a couple of pics of the new shoots.  At present the single one is the largest, and it is under 2cm tall. 

Please click on the pic for a larger version.

[Anthony Darby]

Must do that to mine as it reliably produces one stem and flower each year.

[Paul T]

Anthony,

My other original plant is slowly multiplying, made faster by the fact a couple of years after I got it (it was a "V" shaped rhizome when purchased) I cut one of the sized and prayed I hadn't killed it.  Over the next couple of years it produced a few offsets on the cut size, the cut off point survived and returned to blooming size, and the other uncut side just kept on muddling along all by itself without doing any offsetting.  While a bit scary, it was worth it in the long run.  I just put these latest shots up to show people that results DID happen from my later buthery of my other rhizome, and that it has been worthwhile.  It'll be even more worthwhile in a couple of years when they get up to flowering size, although I'll probably use them for trading before that.